Defeating the defensive barrel roll

[HighGTrn]

The simplest answer: planes can climb too.

Simple question: what the heck does that mean and how does it relate to what we are talking about?

The guy doing the BRDs cannot climb because he's being continually engaged and on the defensive. My question was how these guys manage to keep their E up while doing this.

[pervert]

If the doras still your flavour of the month, the answer is you let them start the overshoot, roll to the opposite direction and drag them up in a spiral, they will be looking for a shot on you as they expect you to overshoot above and in front of them, the change of direction to follow you burns the E they needed for a shot and sets them up for a rope and bag.

[2bighorn]

Simple question: what the heck does that mean and how does it relate to what we are talking about?

The guy doing the BRDs cannot climb because he's being continually engaged and on the defensive. My question was how these guys manage to keep their E up while doing this.

It simply means that barrel rolls don't take that much E. Think rolling scissors. And they don't have more E than that. And if they'd have it, they wouldn't need to be on the defensive all the time. All they do is maintaining certain level of E necessary to perform that maneuver. As long as plane is capable of accelerating in level flight and with that climb, they can do it forever.

Point of defensive barrel roll is not really to gain E, it's to create overshoot or at least get other guy out of sync.



As to the how to defeat it. It depends on relative E states ie closure rate. There's no single method.

[Dawger]

Simple question: what the heck does that mean and how does it relate to what we are talking about?

The guy doing the BRDs cannot climb because he's being continually engaged and on the defensive. My question was how these guys manage to keep their E up while doing this.

The main reason is your barrel roll defense is defeating multiple bandits at once and there are significant periods of time between attackers reaching a threat position allowing the defender to build energy back up.

Most multiple versus one engagements result in the multiple all being in the horizontal plane and the attacks are spaced with plenty of time to build energy if the defender is focused on that and not pursuing the bandit in his forward quarter.

Any well trained wing pair will allow a maneuvering bandit no time to recover energy. The idea of coordinated tactics is to keep a high level of pressure on the bandit. Most guys interpret that to mean trying to stay saddled. What it really means is pushing for an easy shot and repositioning when the shot gets harder. As soon as the defender initiates his defense the attacker should transition to the free fighter role and position for his next pass. His wing man should be reaching a shooting position as the defender is getting about 180 degrees into his defense. If the bandit sees him he will probably have enough energy to evade and the original attacker must be in a threat position at the 180 degree spot of this second defensive break. Rinse and repeat.

If the bandit gets much past 3 or 4 breaks without dying there isn't enough pressure on him.

Example film of Double attack pressure

[Gooss]

You now control the fight and can B&Z on the hog as much as you want. 

Just please don't bore the poor overmatched hog driver.  Kill him quick.  After three passes without a kill, you lost.  I promise, if I'm BnZing you, I"m seriously trying to saddle up on the third pass at the latest.  The eight-pass-then-run BnZ attack is too much like my high school sex life, all anticipation and no action.  Hmm, that's like my married sex life, too.  Damn.

HONK!
Gooss