Author Topic: Need somone to look over a 110-G2 skin.  (Read 1252 times)

Offline Ten60

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 275
Need somone to look over a 110-G2 skin.
« on: December 15, 2010, 08:02:17 PM »
I'm almost done with it, but I'd like someone who's skilled in graphics to look over it and make some suggestions.

I still have the rivets to do and maybe 2 or 3 small edits to do, but I'd very much appreciate someone to give me a few pointers.

Will email it in .pdn format.

Thanks in advance.
"Maybe there are 5,000, maybe 10,000 Nazi bastards in their concrete foxholes before the Third Army. Now if Ike stops holding Monty's hand and gives me some supplies, I'll go through the Siegfried Line like %&# through a goose"

Offline Ten60

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 275
Re: Need somone to look over a 110-G2 skin.
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2010, 02:41:26 PM »
Didn't get any takers so I'll just plug away on my own.  Here's a peek.
"Maybe there are 5,000, maybe 10,000 Nazi bastards in their concrete foxholes before the Third Army. Now if Ike stops holding Monty's hand and gives me some supplies, I'll go through the Siegfried Line like %&# through a goose"

Offline Krusty

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 26745
Re: Need somone to look over a 110-G2 skin.
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2010, 03:07:22 PM »
The forum here is a good place to get feedback. You can start a progress thread (this will do, since you've already posted) and post updates as you get more work done..

I'm not sure that's a historically accurate paint scheme. Seems rather.... splotchy?

Wait, let me clarify: I get what you're trying to do, but the splotches don't look like camouflage as much as they do spots on the surface.

I take it you're using this as a reference?
http://www.clubhyper.com/reference/bf110fcloseupab_1.htm

I wouldn't rely entirely on museum paint schemes, as they are often repainted after the fact many times, and don't always reflect accurate markings/colors during the war.

You'll find that with most 110s they had the standard splinter camo on the upper surfaces and then the "mottling" (spots) were used to cover up the ligher sides of the fuselage and airframe. I've attached a small example of the profile from the Eduard 1/48th model kit showing a Bf110D in the same unit with the same nose art. (see side profile attached picture) You can see it still has the 2-tone splinter camo along the spine, and it's really the sides that have the mottling.

Here's a bad quality example, but an example of a similar plane:

(EDIT: See attached artwork image)

You can see that the upper surfaces are more along the lines of a standard camo pattern.

Here is a better quality reproduction, but more confusing (hence why I show it last)... These are the painting instructions for a model kit. Same plane as the above artwork (LN+IR). The confusing part is the colors used. Those aren't the colors of the plane, but they are to help you tell where one color stops and another starts. You must read the numbers and check the legend to see what the blue is supposed to be (for example)




I hope that helps. Also, if you cannot find any rivet references, don't sweat it. They're nearly impossible to find for Bf110s and I don't think any of the other skins for the 110s have 'em either.

« Last Edit: December 20, 2010, 03:18:49 PM by Krusty »

Offline Ten60

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 275
Re: Need somone to look over a 110-G2 skin.
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2010, 03:20:40 PM »
Sadly there's conflicting images showing the paint scheme and I'm more or less trying to 'split the difference'.

What you found is some of my reference, I've found some other skins from other games as well that seem to match that lower picture (small side shot) a little more, but then again who knows exactly which ref they used.

I'm still trying to find a good scheme especially with the difference in upper and lower background surfaces.

It doesn't terribly help that this skin hasn't been updated and is still on the old 256 setting and uses mirrored surfaces.

Thanks for the assistance
"Maybe there are 5,000, maybe 10,000 Nazi bastards in their concrete foxholes before the Third Army. Now if Ike stops holding Monty's hand and gives me some supplies, I'll go through the Siegfried Line like %&# through a goose"

Offline Krusty

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 26745
Re: Need somone to look over a 110-G2 skin.
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2010, 03:30:43 PM »
Did you make sure to up-scale it to 1024x1024 before beginning work? That will be required.


As for the skins from other games, I use them for inspiration sometimes and are a good stepping stone for future research, but I wouldn't trust them as a truly valid reference. If there's any doubt between a skin from the IL2 game and the instructions from a modern high-end Eduard decal instructions, chances are 99% of the time the skin is the one that's wrong.

The only real exceptions to the upper surface having splinter camo are 1) solid color like desert tan, 2) night fighter solid greys, or greys with squiggle patterns or 3) whitewashed or winter white camo colors.

I think your best bet is to splinter the upper surfaces. The trick is coming up with a compromise that looks okay mirrored left and right on the wings. You can't do both wings and both stabilizers. I struck a balance when I did some 110s a while back, you'll have to find what you think works.

Offline Ten60

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 275
Re: Need somone to look over a 110-G2 skin.
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2010, 04:56:27 PM »
Yeah I resized it properly first.

And the IL2 skins were some of what I saw.  I did find a nice decal package that looked great, but it was to small res for me to really pick out with accuracy what I could find.

And the stab and rudder's are all mirrored so that's actually why I chose a 'spraypainted' look in the cammo scheme so it wouldn't look so goofy.
"Maybe there are 5,000, maybe 10,000 Nazi bastards in their concrete foxholes before the Third Army. Now if Ike stops holding Monty's hand and gives me some supplies, I'll go through the Siegfried Line like %&# through a goose"

Offline 5PointOh

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2842
Re: Need somone to look over a 110-G2 skin.
« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2010, 07:13:16 PM »
Ten,

Try this site for a little help in the camo  http://www.simmerspaintshop.com/.  Krusty is definately better at the Luftwaffle stuff than I, and I'm 100% positive knows more on there looks.  But you may try this site for a stepping stone http://wp.scn.ru/ . I use this site for a basic look of the aircraft, unit numbers and possibly a pilot name.  Then a little google to find more and hopefully pictures. 

Hope it helps.
Coprhead
Wings of Terror
Mossie Student Driver

Offline Motherland

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8110
Re: Need somone to look over a 110-G2 skin.
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2010, 06:26:38 PM »
Sadly there's conflicting images showing the paint scheme and I'm more or less trying to 'split the difference'.
What Krusty posted is correct (granted, it's a generic scheme so there's going to be some variation in the mottling). The mottling on the sides was also generally a bit more 'whispy', not so much hard edged like that shows.

The basic scheme from... mmm IIRC 1940-41ish to 1944 ish IIRC (it's been a while) was an RLM 76 undersurfaces & sides with RLM 75 and 76 in a splinter pattern on the spine and wing roots. The sides would then be patterned with splotches (mottling) of RLM 75 and RLM 76. Any profile that doesn't show this is a) either whitewashed or a tropical (78/79) scheme, b) (and this is most likely if a is not true) wrong or c) some kind of special application. That didn't happen much, especially during the midwar years. The vast, vast majority of the aircraft you see from this time period are 74/75/76.

I made this palette a while ago based on the color swatches provided in Luftwaffe Camouflage and Markings 1933-1945
« Last Edit: December 21, 2010, 06:35:12 PM by Motherland »

Offline Ten60

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 275
Re: Need somone to look over a 110-G2 skin.
« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2010, 10:46:49 PM »
I see what you guy's are saying about the top/bottom/side difference.  I'll definitely correct for that.  Those colors are almost exactly what I had saved on my pallet as well thankfully.  I still welcome more info, I'll post an update after the holidays.  Trying to work on a skin and a website while working and Christmas...  Somethings gotta give lol.
"Maybe there are 5,000, maybe 10,000 Nazi bastards in their concrete foxholes before the Third Army. Now if Ike stops holding Monty's hand and gives me some supplies, I'll go through the Siegfried Line like %&# through a goose"