Question regarding laptop (legal matters)

[Hoarach]

Ok Ive had this laptop since January of 2008 which I bought through cyberpowerpc.com.  It was good for the first year then after the year warranty, they told me I would have to go through MSI (the motherboard company) for repairs if needed.  Well what happens is that problems start occurring after the year warranty and occur basically every four months now.  Each time its been almost a new problem with a range varying from screen not displaying, laptop not booting up, etc.

Now the legal matters at hand.  I have been on the phone with them since yesterday for hours trying to get this situation handled and talked to several people at the company each telling me a different story.  My repairs in the past have been outside warranty and have been covered by them because of the fact that the repairs needed are so frequent.  Now the story with this problem is that they are trying to say that I will have to pay for the repairs this time around which I find total BS.  This problem is the ethernet port is dead and the optical drive is not being recognized in device manager or BIOS. 

Im going talk to the guy that fixed my laptop in the past at MSI tomorrow morning to see if he will waive it as when I have called he hasnt been around apparently so Ive talked to several techs there and apparently their customer service "specialist".

Is this something that I can claim as a lemon and get legal matters involved or is that not possible with electronics?  Im not too familiar with lemon laws so this is why Im asking.  The laptop doesnt get abused and most of the time it is in one spot and when I do transport it between school and home, it is in the cushioned laptop bag I bought made by swissgear.

[Tigger29]

So what's this got to do with legal matters again?

It sounds as if they've already held true to their word for the warranty period of the product, and then some.  I agree that it may be BS that the laptop has only lasted you not even three years, but still they don't last forever.

You said "My repairs in the past have been outside warranty and have been covered by them because of the fact that the repairs needed as so frequent."  You also said "It was good for the first year then after the year warranty, they told me I would have to go through MSI (the motherboard company) for repairs if needed."  So what you are saying is that they've repaired it for free outside of the warranty period out of the goodness of their hearts?  And now you want to sue them?

Something doesn't add up here.  Everything was fine during the warranty, but when you sent it in PAST the warranty period they fixed it for free?  It's great that they did that for you, but the line has to be drawn somewhere.  I commend them for cutting you some slack as far as the warranty is concerned, but you can't expect them to fix it for free forever.

Although I am not a lawyer, I can't find any legal action that would suit what you want to accomplish here.  Suck it up, buy a new laptop and consider purchasing extended warranties if you want the warranty to last beyond a year or two...  Sure you can try to sue them, but good luck finding a lawyer to take that case because I don't see it being a case you'll be able to win.

[Dragon]

In this instance, the port should be considered a wear item like tires on your car.  CD/DVD drives in a laptop are normally doomed for failure due to dust and droppage.

It sounds like Cyberpower has already gone well above and beyond what should have been expected of them. 

[Hoarach]

Alright let me be a little clearer then.

Cyberpower only covers a year warranty.  After the year I have to go through MSI for repairs not cyberpower.  This laptop had to go back to cyberpower at least once maybe twice in that year warranty for repairs.

After the year, I was told to contact MSI for repairs which I did.  I had to pay for the first repair which was a motherboard replacement, roughly $220 bill.  Contacted them again 4 months later where they said because of the short period time I am under warranty from the last repair for a warranty covered repair for the second one.  They did this for the next 5 repairs I had to have with them on this laptop which constituted two more motherboard replacements.

That is 3 motherboard replacements in a 2 year span.  Now they are saying I am most likely going have to pay for another motherboard replacement as they will not cover this one even though this has been 4 months since the last time they repaired it.


And Tigger, I am glad you are made of money telling me to suck it up and buy a new laptop.  I have had this laptop for not even three years yet and your telling me that its just normal wear that they dont last this long?  I am a broke college student with 7 more years of schooling going for my M.D. and telling me to fork out more money to get another laptop which apparently will only last me another 3 years.

[Tigger29]

Alright let me be a little clearer then.

Cyberpower only covers a year warranty.  After the year I have to go through MSI for repairs not cyberpower.  This laptop had to go back to cyberpower at least once maybe twice in that year warranty for repairs.

After the year, I was told to contact MSI for repairs which I did.  I had to pay for the first repair which was a motherboard replacement, roughly $220 bill.  Contacted them again 4 months later where they said because of the short period time I am under warranty from the last repair for a warranty covered repair for the second one.  They did this for the next 5 repairs I had to have with them on this laptop which constituted two more motherboard replacements.

That is 3 motherboard replacements in a 2 year span.  Now they are saying I am most likely going have to pay for another motherboard replacement as they will not cover this one even though this has been 4 months since the last time they repaired it.


And Tigger, I am glad you are made of money telling me to suck it up and buy a new laptop.  I have had this laptop for not even three years yet and your telling me that its just normal wear that they dont last this long?  I am a broke college student with 7 more years of schooling going for my M.D. and telling me to fork out more money to get another laptop which apparently will only last me another 3 years.

OK, so what was the warranty on the replacement motherboards?  From what I've seen in the industry, replacement parts often only come with a 1 month warranty (but possibly as much as 3 months.)  If that warranty has lapsed, then unfortunately they are right.  If they are refusing to repair it while it is in fact under warranty, then yes that might have some kind of legal standing, but from what I'm reading I don't believe that to be the case.

Believe me, I feel your pain.  I'm far from being made of money myself.  I agree it SHOULD (in theory) last another three years, but at the same time I don't feel it is the manufacturer's responsibility to continue to repair a product for free when it is beyond its warranty just because the person who purchased the product is a 'broke college student'.  Honestly, I don't even know why you bring that into the equation as it has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on your legal standing towards getting a manufacturer to fix FOR FREE a product that is long past its warranty period.

I know it sucks (especially being money is tight) but seriously here... you're barking up the wrong tree wanting to get a lawyer to "force them to fix it for free."  The best you can hope for is to possibly threaten them with legal action and perhaps they will be more willing to help at that point.  Then again, they may simply decide to stop talking to you, and give you the phone number of their lawyer, so the plan very well could backfire.  Do NOT play the "I've got a lawyer" card unless you're willing to show your hand.  Even if you DID have a case, the best you could hope for would be to sue them for the cost of a replacement laptop (and legal fees), but it won't help your situation now because it can sometimes take months, if not years.. to even GET that money... that is, of course, you had any chance of winning.

I just LOVE how kids these days have this "Not my problem" attitude.  "Oh poor me, I'm a poor and broke college student and oh noes my laptop isn't working right!  It's out of warranty but they OWE me a new one because I can't afford to have it fixed."  Yes, I completely agree with you with the fact that the motherboard seems to be lacking in quality and should be lasting longer, but then again I don't know the other circumstances.  Neither does MSI.  For all we know, the unit could have been dropped, or something heavy stored on it... or used in a way that no air can circulate.  Put yourself in their shoes.  If they were forced to fix your unit for free, then they'd have to start fixing everyone's units, regardless of abuse as I'm sure that EVERYONE that has problems claims that their laptops are "well taken care of".  I'm not doubting your claim, I'm just stating that I'm sure they've heard it all.

Also, unfortunately laptops these days seem to struggle to make it to the 3 year mark without having issues.  Heck, my G/F's never even leaves its table and I just had to replace the power jack and the cooling fan in it.  It's not even 19 months old!  You don't see me crying and thinking about suing over it...

Another option you may want to consider is to find a new or used replacement motherboard and fix it yourself.

[Hoarach]

Now that post actually helps me more than your first post Tigger.

This laptop never moves and I use a zalman cooler underneath it.

I actually started looking at new laptops just in case the situation does occur where they wont cover it...this would be the 4th motherboard in 2 year and Im questioning how many more repairs I would pay for.  Im not trying to use the excuse Im a broke college student as I have not told them that, but Im just saying money is tight reason Im fighting this with them as much as possible.

If you were to recommend a laptop then what brand would you recommend.  I tried cyberpower since many recommended it and it backfired.  I started looking at Sony and Dell but I dont like the bloatware Dell and HP put on their computers.

[Skuzzy]

Laptops are not going to last as long as a desktop and if something breaks in a desktop, you can fix it yourself, if you build it yourself.  Long term, a home built desktop that is not striving to be "state-of-the-art" will last much, much longer than any laptop and long term cost of ownership is also less.

Never expect a laptop to last more than two years.  That way you are not surprised when it breaks at the three year mark.

If the laptop never moves, then why get a laptop?  The initial cost is higher.  The long term cost of ownnership is higher as well (as you have found out).

[Hoarach]

Laptops are not going to last as long as a desktop and if something breaks in a desktop, you can fix it yourself, if you build it yourself.  Long term, a home built desktop that is not striving to be "state-of-the-art" will last much, much longer than any laptop and long term cost of ownership is also less.

Never expect a laptop to last more than two years.  That way you are not surprised when it breaks at the three year mark.

If the laptop never moves, then why get a laptop?  The initial cost is higher.  The long term cost of ownnership is higher as well (as you have found out).

I like to have the mobility to move it say to another room in my suite style dorm which I do occasionally or go elsewhere with it why I need to.  It rarely moves though.

[Dragon]

between school and home

I like to have the mobility to move it say to another room in my suite style dorm which I do occasionally or go elsewhere with it why I need to.  It rarely moves though.

I know I'm not helping.

I am a broke college student with

my suite style dorm

really?


Still not helping.

[RTHolmes]

what does the law say about it? in the UK it would be covered by the Sale of Goods Act, which says that stuff must be sold "as advertised", "fit for purpose" etc. A judge ruled a coupla years ago that a PC should last for 5 years under normal use, a laptop 3 years, which seems pretty reasonable to me.

the only "wear and tear" components should be the mechanical ones - fans, HDs, optical drives - certainly not the eth port or motherboard.

personally, at the 3rd mobo failure I would take the view that the design/manufacturing process is junk and go for a full refund. did exactly this a few years ago with an AMD based HP desktop, full refund and replaced it with an intel based box.

[Tigger29]

what does the law say about it? in the UK it would be covered by the Sale of Goods Act, which says that stuff must be sold "as advertised", "fit for purpose" etc. A judge ruled a coupla years ago that a PC should last for 5 years under normal use, a laptop 3 years, which seems pretty reasonable to me.

the only "wear and tear" components should be the mechanical ones - fans, HDs, optical drives - certainly not the eth port or motherboard.

personally, at the 3rd mobo failure I would take the view that the design/manufacturing process is junk and go for a full refund. did exactly this a few years ago with an AMD based HP desktop, full refund and replaced it with an intel based box.

This is where the UK differs from the US.  Here, we let a free market dictate those sorts of things.  In other words, if my computer company is building junk products, and your computer company is building quality products, then people will figure this out and start buying systems from you instead of me.  This would leave me with one of three options - 1> Close down 2> Build better products or 3> Charge less money.  No judge needed to dictate that.  In the OP's case, he purchased a computer from cyberpowerpc.com who have very inexpensive prices on their systems.  Now, I have no experience with their stuff so I can't judge the quality of their products, but sometimes you have to wonder why their prices tend to be so low.  Perhaps this is an example of why?  I don't know for certain but pure speculation makes me wonder.

Now there are a few examples where the US government has tried to take control of this sort of thing... such as 'lemon' laws with new cars, but I can't go into any detail at all here as it is a borderline political discussion, but even with the best of intentions these sorts of things tend to backfire by raising prices and limiting competition.  Yes it allows some 'shady' businesses to come in and take advantage of some consumers' ignorance but they typically don't last very long, and if they do it's because their prices are so insanely low that people just can't resist but to try them out.

Just for an example, I just checked out some pricing for the Logitech G940 through Amazon.com/Amazon.co.uk.  In the US, it can be had for $275.37.  In the UK, it costs EU245.11.  This converts to US$321.19, or about US$46 more (17%).  Perhaps it's more money because they have to take into account all the free replacements they'd have to give away due to the Sale of Goods Act?  Makes you wonder just how much those sorts of things actually protect the end consumers...

[Skuzzy]

Your last paragraph is begging for a political discussion.  Let's not go there.

[Fulmar]

Laptops are not going to last as long as a desktop and if something breaks in a desktop, you can fix it yourself, if you build it yourself.  Long term, a home built desktop that is not striving to be "state-of-the-art" will last much, much longer than any laptop and long term cost of ownership is also less.

Never expect a laptop to last more than two years.  That way you are not surprised when it breaks at the three year mark.

If the laptop never moves, then why get a laptop?  The initial cost is higher.  The long term cost of ownnership is higher as well (as you have found out).

I've worked in the commercial and retail battery market for coming up on 6 years.  Everything from a watch battery to a forklift.  It never ceases to amaze me the customers looking for replacement batteries and educating them on proper battery maintenance.  That aside, the vast majority of retail customers really just use their laptop as a small desktop.  They used their new laptop on their bed when they first bought it (for a couple weeks) and there it sat for 3 years at their desk.

Even my wife, when she was in college spent about $1800 on a Toshiba laptop circa 2004.  It had to be sent out twice to Toshiba for repair, once for a bad motherboard and as soon as she got it back the wireless was not functioning. (she did buy the 3 year warranty).  The power jack did develop a loose connection after about 3 years and the power adapter was also replaced.

It still functions and I've used it from time to time, but just sits in storage for now.  I did what maintenance I could on it (new hard drive, ram, cleaning the heatsink etc).  But I know that once something else fails on it (if its used ever again), its going to ebay for parts.

Last year after its age was really showing, I built her a desktop.  It took some convincing but I showed her that I can do the repair, I can upgrade it at any time, you use it just like a desktop now, and your cat won't lay on it.

[Doctahg]

Dell puts BLOATWEAR into their laptops BUT you delete it, or remove it from the boot.  problem solved.  Biggest problems with 10 Dell laptops-office uses them-1 HD failed and a few keys on the keyboard have..over 6 years now...

[RTHolmes]

This is where the UK differs from the US.  Here, we let a free market dictate those sorts of things.

free markets depend on good information - for a truly free market the consumer has to know exactly what they are getting for their money, otherwise they cant price it. this is one thing the SoGA aims to address. lack of regulation makes a deregulated market, not a free market, big difference.

there must be some kind of analogue is US law surely? If I walk into a dealership and buy a car advertised and badged as having a 7.0l V8, get home lift the lid and find a 3.0l V6 is there no legislation to cover that? or is it just covered by tort?