Why the Hordes?

[Masherbrum]

No one is playing semantics, it's just that no one has any idea what your argument is exactly.

I'm not even arguing.   It's really simple, you think you know what I'm typing.   When in fact before you've even hit the Reply Button, you're mistaken.  

Fugi, Ink, and others know exactly what I typed and what I meant by it.   You on the other hand, have failed at even "guessing the correct answer".  

[SectorNine50]

I agree, there are a lot out there that have one of those internet attitudes, where they "hide behind the name."  I can't say I agree that a horde is a good example of that, but I know the type and what you mean.  I hope you don't think I'm defending this position only because I'm hiding behind a name, because I'd say any of this to anyone face-to-face.  Plus, I really like my "name", and I don't want it to have a bad connotation among the community since I'd like to play this game and have fun for a while.

In my case, it's not that I don't care if others aren't having fun, it's just that it gets hard to sympathize that people don't take their fun into their own hands.  I really don't care if hording existed or not, I'm getting sick of everyone squeaking and moaning about how this great game is going downhill.  All I see now days are threads about how everyone else is ruining the game, and that everyone else should stop doing what they are doing, and I just want to absolutely scream at them.  I get this feeling that some people think that since they have been in the game for 'X' amount of years, that they have some clout as to what the "code of honor" of this game is.

This game has grown, a LOT.  Even since I've been playing.  This changes the dynamic of the game; there are more people in-game doing things together and alone.  Most people seem to be fine with the changes, they adapt and continue to have fun.  It seems that there are some out there who refuse to do so, they miss the days of everyone knowing everyone on a personal level and people started fights 1v1 and finished fights 1v1.  I'm not saying they shouldn't miss them, but they need to figure out what's wrong and how to fix it for themselves, not for everyone else.  Sure, if you have an idea as to how to fix a problem with the game, throw up something in the wishlist.  Posting about problems with human nature and gameplay are fruitless, and really give the community and forums a negative feeling.

I realize I'm typing a lot, so I'll wrap this up.  I've had more fun recently with this game than ever in the past, basically because I've stopped letting things get to me.  Everything has a counter-attack, and nothing "ruins gameplay," except for yourself.  This game is innately a fun game for those interested in the theme, it's one of a kind, and the developers are clearly brilliant (it actually amazes me how much they are part of the community, that is second-to-none in video games now days).  If this community would relax a little bit, I think things would be much, much better...  Alas, human nature strikes again.

-Justin Wiley
aka "Sector95"

P.S. Mash, I was never being rude to you.  A simple clarification would have been nice, and that's all that was needed.

[lutzmax]

I don't understand anyuthing written here by anyone and I blame you all!!

Get off my lawn!!!
 

[eMan]

 

Amazing. Horde whines still exist? Should just regurg the original "horde" post from umm...1999 or 2000? Been so so long.

Gotta luv it.  Where's my P51 parked at?

[Crash Orange]

OK so your the same age as my youngest son. You were brought up in "video games". I bought my first video game about the time you were born (Legend of Zelda). Your out look on life differs a lot from mine.

You make a lot of assumptions about people based on very little information - based mostly on your prejudices.

(FYI, the first video game I played was "Pong," and it seemed AMAZINGLY high tech at the time. That was in the early 70s, before they had consoles to play even Pong on your TV. When I got an Atari 2600, which wasn't called the 2600 yet, it felt like being transported to the bridge of the starship Enterprise. I guess their Jet Fighter (on the tank cartridge) was the first air combat video game I played.)  

[Crash Orange]

OK Crash, I understand what your saying. Are you saying that is how it happens when your squad runs?

Not usually - I'm saying that's how it happens if there's a horde that my squad is a part of. But contrary to a lot of the whining you hear on the forum, most of the time we have 6 to 12 people with maybe a few folks flying along with us, not a massive horde of 30+.

So the question Crash is do your mission leaders point out all of the mission details or do they say flatten the town and so and so bring troops?

Depends on the situation and the number of people coming along, but usually it's the former. However, like I said, the one thing the mission planner has the least control over is how many people show up, and if 30 people show up, most of whom aren't used to flying missions with us (and vice versa), exercising tight tactical control over a mob like that becomes close to impossible.

What I'm trying to get at is that I think hordes are a result of the mindset of the people who join, not the result of a specific plan on the part of a mission planner/leader. There's really no way for a misison planner to plan on having 30-40 people show up, and once they do, there's little opportunity to get fancy with strategy. The sort of planning and operations you describe are something that develop over the course of a few hours or an evening, and while the mob may stay together that long, the individual horizon of any of its members is much shorter than that. The horde just isn't that cohesive; it's a mob, not a tactical unit.

One thing I've noticed is that when a horde does assemble, posting a mission is about the only way it's practical to direct its activities once the initial base is taken. You can say, "Okay, let's start porking troops/ords/dar at X, Y, and Z," or "let's move on A## rather than that useless VBase," but the only people who are liekly to listen are the core who are members of the squad or others used to flying with us regularly. Everyone else pretty much ignores it and does whatever they want to do - the horde will tend to stay glommed together, but its next target becomes random (or the path of least resistance). Likewise with trying to tell people NOT to pork a base we're attacking - once the mob gets big enough, it'll do what it feels like. However, posting a mission and specifying a target is a bit more likely to get the members of the horde to fall in and cooperate to that limited extent. It's like any mob in any aspect of human society - the collective IQ is much lower than the individual IQs of the members. But in this situation the guy posting missions isn't so much keeping the horde together as nudging it toward a more productive course of action.

[Zoney]

I agree, there are a lot out there that have one of those internet attitudes, where they "hide behind the name."  I can't say I agree that a horde is a good example of that, but I know the type and what you mean.  I hope you don't think I'm defending this position only because I'm hiding behind a name, because I'd say any of this to anyone face-to-face.  Plus, I really like my "name", and I don't want it to have a bad connotation among the community since I'd like to play this game and have fun for a while.

In my case, it's not that I don't care if others aren't having fun, it's just that it gets hard to sympathize that people don't take their fun into their own hands.  I really don't care if hording existed or not, I'm getting sick of everyone squeaking and moaning about how this great game is going downhill.  All I see now days are threads about how everyone else is ruining the game, and that everyone else should stop doing what they are doing, and I just want to absolutely scream at them.  I get this feeling that some people think that since they have been in the game for 'X' amount of years, that they have some clout as to what the "code of honor" of this game is.

This game has grown, a LOT.  Even since I've been playing.  This changes the dynamic of the game; there are more people in-game doing things together and alone.  Most people seem to be fine with the changes, they adapt and continue to have fun.  It seems that there are some out there who refuse to do so, they miss the days of everyone knowing everyone on a personal level and people started fights 1v1 and finished fights 1v1.  I'm not saying they shouldn't miss them, but they need to figure out what's wrong and how to fix it for themselves, not for everyone else.  Sure, if you have an idea as to how to fix a problem with the game, throw up something in the wishlist.  Posting about problems with human nature and gameplay are fruitless, and really give the community and forums a negative feeling.

I realize I'm typing a lot, so I'll wrap this up. I've had more fun recently with this game than ever in the past, basically because I've stopped letting things get to me.  Everything has a counter-attack, and nothing "ruins gameplay," except for yourself.  This game is innately a fun game for those interested in the theme, it's one of a kind, and the developers are clearly brilliant (it actually amazes me how much they are part of the community, that is second-to-none in video games now days).  If this community would relax a little bit, I think things would be much, much better...  Alas, human nature strikes again.-Justin Wiley
aka "Sector95"

P.S. Mash, I was never being rude to you.  A simple clarification would have been nice, and that's all that was needed.

Excellent job sir  well done, obviously because I agree with you.

[The Fugitive]

What I'm trying to get at is that I think hordes are a result of the mindset of the people who join, not the result of a specific plan on the part of a mission planner/leader. There's really no way for a misison planner to plan on having 30-40 people show up, and once they do, there's little opportunity to get fancy with strategy. The sort of planning and operations you describe are something that develop over the course of a few hours or an evening, and while the mob may stay together that long, the individual horizon of any of its members is much shorter than that. The horde just isn't that cohesive; it's a mob, not a tactical unit

I agree 100% with you on how a horde forms, but I think a leader can control the horde as he sees one forming. If you post a mission for you squad (10 guys) and the leader sees 25 join he could then change his plan to mix in the new guys he doesn't know with guys he does know to make 2 forces to attack 2 bases. That is where I think the community could help knock back the hordes a bit

[bustr]

With the 50% town down and flag change we are just starting to see missions as a fun past time again. The missions are not very delicate but, at least we are seeing missions and they are working. Mission evolution seems to be based on what works to achive the goal and make the group happy enough to join the next one. That name brand trust factor like the Free Birds used to have.

If you split your mission and it's successful, you will be exaserbating the hoard by making area defenders have to come from farther away due to your sencondary assault either pulling defenders elswhere or it removing the ability to use a nearby base. And if this works most of the time, you get a reputation for good missions and more players join up to subsiquent endevors because successfull missions mean a low probability of getting killed with a target vulching rich environment as a perk.

So eventualy where you had a single hoard from your missions you now have the capacity for two hoards due to your success at strategy. I watched this happen with the Free Birds and other squads back in the days. The solution you are dancing around sounds like a formalised set of mission rules should be imposed on the arenas like the DA 1v1 dueling rules. Otherwise a successful mission leader breeds hoards of followers who want to win. Not play by an ethstetic sense of the greater AH zeitgeist.

[bj229r]

These tweaks HT have been putting into place make for a fascinating study of human behavior...we have a sociology class every night

[falcon23]

The front lines are stagnant due to the map changes recently implemented..THIS is only going to make hordes worse...I think people jhave nothing better to do than to just fly together..Its one giant furball now anyway...With any base-taking being A MOOT POINT,as the base will be someone elses within 24 hours..

[The Fugitive]

Well if some enterprising leader would step up and start a mission, say 12 guys to grab a base and succeed. The next mission most likely garner more support. If that leader was a real good leader he could use that larger force to take two bases at a time. Again, with his success at leadership his force would again increase allowing him to take 4 maybe 5 bases at once. A strong leader with a determined force spread across the front could easily win the war in a single night.


Just saying 

[Spite]

Well if some enterprising leader would step up and start a mission, say 12 guys to grab a base and succeed.

Perhaps you could switch to Bish for awhile and show us how it's done.   

If that leader was a real good leader he could use that larger force to take two bases at a time.

I've seen many a mission launch with a 2 base objective.  Happens all the time.  Not always successful, of course, but ...

There are also many single base missions with secondary and tertiary targets, be it ord porking, dar busting, fighter or buff interjection from adjacent fields.  The point is, it's not for lack of planning on the mission planner's part to utilize an attempt to maximize one's forces.  You aren't asking for anything new here that hasn't, or doesn't, get regularly implemented.

A strong leader with a determined force spread across the front could easily win the war in a single night.

Where does one buy these rose colored glasses?  Mine are decidedly jaded, err, faded.   

[RufusLeaking]

A strong leader with a determined force spread across the front could easily win the war in a single night.

One flaw in this statement is whether the volunteers are going to do what the leader asks.  Even then, there is a requirement for competence.  I've been in AH for a while now, and I still have only a 10% chance of hitting building with a jabo.

Last night, there was a full green dar bar horde at A72(?) and most were there just to vulch.  Whiite flag up, but the base was not captured.  Second point: hordes are not monoliths.  Rarely is there a singular focus.

Hordes happen.  Personally, I head for the biggest red dar bar.  Hordes can be fun.

[waystin2]

The Pigs had what I call critical Pig Mass last night with over 12+ of us logged in.  We had every armchair general on the Knights telling us what we should be doing.  We helped with a couple of field takes, but eventually our ADHD set in again and we began goofing off and having fun.  Flying 35+ ENY plane sweeps, furballing, bombing, and other nefarious activities with no real goal in mind.  Is'nt that what it is all about?  Why pile into the large group of fellas with another 12+ pilots?  We were having fun, and did not need to add to the fairly large group that was already assembled.  Nothing like landing 16 assists!