AH compared to RL airplanes

[68Wooley]

Ahhhhhh sorry , but no.  Those thousands of things your brain has to translate have to be learned in the real world. An experienced pilot in a trainer doesn't jump into a twin without training, nor does he transfer from a twin to turbine. All have their good and bad characteristics. AH WILL NOT prepare you for flying a trainer, please don't think it will, you are very mistaken. what it does help with is the terminology in relation to some aircraft instruments and such things. Most of the new trainers out there have glass cockpits, they have dispensed with the old steam gauges.

Totally disagree with you and as a student pilot I'm basing this on my actual experience. The first time I sat in a trainer, the only thing I didn't do in terms of actually flying the aircraft was fly short final to touch down. I was prepared to have to dial in right rudder on take off, I knew what to expect if I moved the stick in a certain way, I knew what the CFI was talking about if he mentioned roll, pitch, yaw, trim, flaps, slips, stalls etc.

Was it polished? No.
Did I know anything about the hundreds of other things necessary to be a real-life pilot like airspace, communications, engine management, weather, FAR 91.whatever etc etc? Absolutely not.
Could I have done the same thing in a more advanced aircraft? Almost certainly not.

No one's suggesting AH equips you with everything you need to be a real life pilot, but most competent AH2 pilots will be able to maneuver a real life trainer in fair weather around the sky without augering - at least until it runs out of gas.

[ink]

I was thinking about this some more, another difference, I use the CH fighter stick and all the sim sticks are self centering, unlike the plane I flew  I remember having to reach down and pulling the stick up, not self centering, every tiny movement in the Decathalon made the plane move, it felt like I was constintly on a roller coaster going down, that stomach in throat feeling, the guy that took me up said you cant feel the wind, he has been flying since he was 9, he was 22, wassnt thrilled at that but he was great,  I told him about my AH career, he was actually  quite suprized at how well I did, the whole vertigo thing though is a huge aspect that we cannot get from AH, I must say this also, when the tires lifted off I was over come by emotions to the point of tears absolutly amazing, just the birth of my kids was more moving. Cant wait to go up again. I Envy all you that fly every day.

[CAP1]

There are no similarities. Do not try to mesh the two together cuz it is impossible. My Luscombe is a bit of a handful in the wind, there is no wind in AH.

sure there is....sometimes. ya just gotta know where to look for it.

[CAP1]

There is plenty of wind in AH; mostly confined to channel 200 and the forums. 

there is a place in which there is wind which effects the flight of yhour cartoon aircraft too.

[CAP1]

  True wind is a big factor for takeoff and landing, but in flight airplane has no idea which way wind is blowing or how fast.

you want to fly a heading of 270. wind is 300@19. i somehow think that'll affect the plane in flight. 

[Saurdaukar]

Ahhhhhh sorry , but no.  Those thousands of things your brain has to translate have to be learned in the real world. An experienced pilot in a trainer doesn't jump into a twin without training, nor does he transfer from a twin to turbine. All have their good and bad characteristics. AH WILL NOT prepare you for flying a trainer, please don't think it will, you are very mistaken. what it does help with is the terminology in relation to some aircraft instruments and such things. Most of the new trainers out there have glass cockpits, they have dispensed with the old steam gauges.

You are welcome to your opinion, of course, and please don't read any animosity into this, but your post is an example of what I was referring to - you disagree, but you do it from an "I'm a REAL pilot" ivory tower and don't offer much reasoning beyond "because."

My experience was and has been very different from yours.  I recall my first "real" VFR flight vividly (who doesn't?) and I think Wooley very nicely summed up what I would have written, below.  Like him, I was given a relatively larger degree of control over the airplane at a relatively accelerated pace and I was asked by my CFI, on two occasions that day, if it was really my first time.  After takeoff, the only thing he took the airplane back for were touch-downs, final approaches and landing.  

He wanted a constant speed?  No problem.  Climb to this altitude?  No problem.  Turn to this heading?  Ok.  Run a few patterns?  Sure.  Descend and come about to line up with the tarmac?  Got it.

As has been stated, no one is suggesting that AH will allow you to properly navigate, communicate, file flight plans, manage the intricacies of the airplane's operating systems, etc, etc, but, at the end of the day, you've got a stick, a throttle and a pair of pedals in a real airplane.  As I type this, I've got the same stuff around my desk.

While my desk may not pull 3G's and while I don't have to worry about tying down the speakers so they don't hit the ceiling while my cartoon airplane is inverted, I'd wager that 75% of the guys playing this game could take a single-engine trainer and keep it in the air just fine.

Totally disagree with you and as a student pilot I'm basing this on my actual experience. The first time I sat in a trainer, the only thing I didn't do in terms of actually flying the aircraft was fly short final to touch down. I was prepared to have to dial in right rudder on take off, I knew what to expect if I moved the stick in a certain way, I knew what the CFI was talking about if he mentioned roll, pitch, yaw, trim, flaps, slips, stalls etc.

Was it polished? No.
Did I know anything about the hundreds of other things necessary to be a real-life pilot like airspace, communications, engine management, weather, FAR 91.whatever etc etc? Absolutely not.
Could I have done the same thing in a more advanced aircraft? Almost certainly not.

No one's suggesting AH equips you with everything you need to be a real life pilot, but most competent AH2 pilots will be able to maneuver a real life trainer in fair weather around the sky without augering - at least until it runs out of gas.

 

[Ardy123]

ahh man.. you mean that if I do my 109 rudder/roll reversals, that snap the nose around very quickly, after zooming up in a rolling scissors, I might choke on my own vomit and snap my neck in real life?


...ok so maybe there are some obvious similarities between AH and flying real aircraft, or even RC planes, but, beyond basic flying, I'd imagine most of the stuff we do in AH is fantasy land to the fullest degree... and no one does in real life, ever.

[Brooke]

My opinion, having done a small amount of civilian flying and having flown once at Air Combat USA, is that, once you are used to the different sensory modality of Aces High (feeling stalls and g's with auditory and visual cues instead of "seat of the pants" cues), Aces High is very close to reality.

In Air Combat USA, I went with two other folks:  one an experienced Air Warrior pilot with very little time in real planes and one a commercially rated pilot with thousands of hours and no time in Air Warrior.  The Air Warrior pilots were much better at air combat in those real planes than the commercially rated pilot.

Air combat vs. flying is like hockey vs. skating.  You can be the world's greatest figure skater or speed skater yet not be good at hockey (not knowing stick handling, shooting, situational awareness, plays, checking, etc., which can take years to develop).  The same is true of air combat -- you can be a great civilian pilot, but without developed skill in ACM (which is not a trivial amount of time to develop), you will not excel in AH.

[Oldman731]

AH WILL NOT prepare you for flying a trainer, please don't think it will, you are very mistaken.

I think computer sims like AH help, but can be overrated.  Certainly they gave me a good head start on landing perspectives, where the plane was going to touch down, how to control speed with pitch, that sort of thing.  I continue to use them for instrument scan practice (hey, even climbing out of a base in AH2 gives you some time to do this).

I believe they're way OVER-rated when I see people typing things like "Dude, we would have been most excellent World War II pilots with all the hundreds of thousands of hours of computer sim training we've had.  Bet I could have owned Adolf Galland or Johnnie Johnson or Saburo Sakai!"  Computers don't model G forces, in particular, or turbulence or the strain of pulling on the stick through multiple maneuvers, or spotting and keeping track of a plane that doesn't have a glowing icon above it (...well...most places in AH2 don't....), things that in a real aerobatic combat environment are critical.

- oldman

[ink]

oldman missed one major point in regards to the ww2 pilots, ummm  bullets really kill you in RL.....haha imagine tracers flying through the screen and removing ones head.....lol   oh man that cracks me up....lol sorry gents wierd mood im in...

[jimson]

I am not a real pilot. My Pop was and I spent a lot of time in the air with him (before I started flying a computer) in a Piper Tomahawk, Beech Musketeer, and an Ercoupe.

Iv'e taken the controls many times and while I don't believe this game is anywhere near adequate flight training, should I be flying in a small plane and for whatever reason I absolutely had to take the yoke or stick, I believe I have a greater chance of being able to bring the plane down and at least survive a crash landing than I did before I started flying sims.

I certainly wouldn't want to test this theory though.

[save]

To me RL flying compared with AH differs some aspects:

I normally fly lightweight planes (VLA)

Rudder much more effective in AH  than in RL. I compare a yak55 vs the radials we have in AH. ( only 30 mins stick time in yak)

Easy to get rid of speed landing in AH than RL , touches topic above.

Crosswind landings in gusts .....

Landing a tail-dragger on concrete is a handful RL, i prefer to land on grass with my Cub.

[Tupac]

I started playing AH 4 years prior to starting flight lessons, and it helped me out a bunch. On my first lesson I almost landed without any help from the instructor (almost  )

[IronDog]

I have never flown a r/l airplane.I have flown just about every flight sim that has been made.AH flight model is simple compared to Mickysofts flight simulator with the A2A add ons.You have to manually push and pull all the instruments just as in r/l and the torque is massive.Take offs and landings are hard.Input from r/l pilots claim it's as close to the real thing as one can possibly get.When I want to get challenged,I up the P-47 Razorback from Pocatello Regional,and try to make it to Jackson,WY,Idaho Falls,or Boise,w/o crashing.I find it a lot of fun,and It's probably as close to real flying as one can come.

[edge12674]

I too found that "playing" AH genre computer programs helped me when learning RL flying.  I never cared much for the MS Flight sims and always preferred the combat sims.  On my "Discovery flight" (a.k.a your first flying lesson) my CFI flew us to a quiet area and allowed me to take control of the Cessna 150.  He proceeded with the lesson and we eventually wound up back at our airport.  We entered the pattern and I kept expecting him to take back the controls.  On touch down he laughed out loud and told me that he had never let a student handle the entire landing.  He said every time he was about to take back control I would make the appropriate correction so he just continued to monitor me. 

I feel the sims assisted me in being familiar with the steam gauges and basic runway picture on final.  I also found during my training that flying with the hood on (flying by instruments only) was very simple (I had heard horror stories from other students about hood flying).  Since AH relies on visual and audio cues only, I think it helps a RL pilot learn to trust the instruments a little more and "seat of the pants" a little less.  Considering how the inner ear can trick you I think this is a good thing!  Also you learn in combat flight sims to use rudder pedals to bring a wing up and increase your roll rate.  This translates well into GA flying as a common problem with most students is to forget the rudder entirely.

I have been a GA pilot for ten years now and I have recommended to others that the best way to take flying lessons is to first read up on the subject and spend quite a few hours on a flight sim.  It will not make you pilot, but it will help the learning curve and cut down how many hours of instruction you will need to get your certificate.