109K4 V Spit 14

[Saurdaukar]

The K4 and Spit 14 have similar top of the range climb, speed and accelaration figures as well as similar turning circles and that they tend to have advantages over other planes which are accentuated by altitude. They both tend to excell in the vertical fight and have significant torque effects.

Appart form those 7 key attributes very little in common though  

 

Comparing statistics on paper creates a false sense of similarity.  By this logic, the D Hog's are, near as makes no difference, the same exact cartoon airplanes as the 109 Gustav's.

We all know that this is not the case, in practice.

It's like "magazine racing."  If you think that our discussions of relative performance differences between airplane X and airplane Y are harsh, visit one of the automotive forums.  Lord help you if you find a Z06/ZR1 vs. 911 Turbo/GT2 thread.  

On paper the pairings are, near as makes no difference, identical.  In practice... completely different cars.

Consider mentoring a brand-spanking-new player in AH.  Spit or 109.  What are you going to recommend he roll for his first sortie?

[Yarbles]

So everyone agrees unperk the 14  

Comparing statistics on paper creates a false sense of similarity.  By this logic, the D Hog's are, near as makes no difference, the same exact cartoon airplanes as the 109 Gustav's.

We all know that this is not the case, in practice.

It's like "magazine racing."  If you think that our discussions of relative performance differences between airplane X and airplane Y are harsh, visit one of the automotive forums.  Lord help you if you find a Z06/ZR1 vs. 911 Turbo/GT2 thread. 

On paper the pairings are, near as makes no difference, identical.  In practice... completely different cars.

Consider a brand, spanking new player in AH.  Spit or 109.  What are you going to recommend he roll for his first sortie?

I just flew them against eachother in the da and one spins to the left and the other to the right.

[JunkyII]

So everyone agrees unperk the 14 

Yes....but 16 has to take its place....

[Saurdaukar]

So everyone agrees unperk the 14  

If it's a personal point of interest, I have no problem with this.  I don't think the 14 is good enough to unbalance gameplay.

I just flew them against eachother in the da and one spins to the left and the other to the right.

And a semi-truck develops more horsepower and torque than a Ferrari F430.

Which one you gonna race in?

You're over-simplifying.

[Scotch]

I agree with Grizz on this. I feel the vast majority of kills (as Snailman has pointed out), are done by a few people. I'm  going to be a shameless self promoter here and point to the fact that in the 'POTW 3d wing', accounts for almost 10% of all the k4 kills! and of that group, it really comes down too 4 pilots who flew the k4.

957 kills in a k4 were done by 4 guys in our squad...
same with 989 kills in a p51D....

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/scores/sqdkillstat.php?selectTour=LWTour131&player=Krupnski&kt=3970

Heh...I remember the tour that moot and grizz had 50% of the 152 kills, I had something stupid like 15% of the k4 kills. Of course more people fly both planes now. Wannabees!

[Yarbles]

Yes....but 16 has to take its place....

They arn't in any way linked and I don't fly the 16 but leave it unperked as its a good plane for newbs to get some initial success in. I am no great stick but have no problem with 16's, Nikki, La7 or Brew's just the pilots if they are good. The game has to be successfull to survive and is already inaccesable enough.    

[grizz441]

Heh...I remember the tour that moot and grizz had 50% of the 152 kills, I had something stupid like 15% of the k4 kills. Of course more people fly both planes now. Wannabees!

 

Was insane.  Me and moot combined had over 1600 kills.

[Yarbles]

You're over-simplifying.

Alright Brewster, Typhoon, Spit 14, 109 k4. Which match up of any 2 would be most closely matched.  

Or perk the K4 because the spit14 is perked, they have almost the exact same performance under 25k.

Corresponds to my experience and the stats.

No they arn't identical.

[Saurdaukar]

Alright Brewster, Typhoon, Spit 14, 109 k4. Which match up of any 2 would be most closely matched.  

Brewster v. Brewster.

Typhoon v. Typhoon.

Spit 14 v. Spit 14.

109K4 v. 109K4.

[grizz441]

Brewster v. Brewster.

Typhoon v. Typhoon.

Spit 14 v. Spit 14.

109K4 v. 109K4.

Well played.   

[JunkyII]

Heh...I remember the tour that moot and grizz had 50% of the 152 kills, I had something stupid like 15% of the k4 kills. Of course more people fly both planes now. Wannabees!

Was insane.  Me and moot combined had over 1600 kills.

You two won't do a 5 round 2v2 match with Krupnski and I......

[Ruah]

spit 14 is hard to fly - i actually think that the k4 is easier.  Sure the guns are harder on the k4 and I know i need a lot of work to make those rounds connect, but I think it has much more reliable stall characteristics - so reliable that you can (as demonstrated in various training films and to me whenever I go up against a good k4) build entire ACMs around them.  The 14 is much more difficult to control in teh stall imo - you would think it would just roll to the right in a reliable fashion - but it does not - it seems to exit flight really easily and enter these nasty flat spins. . .  

Now I am a newer player here - but the 16 is far better plan in terms of 99% of combat in here and if the 14 were unperked, you would get a few hadcore followers and the rest will stay with the 16 which is more stable, is goo enough for most combat situations, and is an overall better gun platform.

But those guns do make a big difference, if the k4 had a 20mm, it would also prbably be perked.

[dedalos]

Honestly though, one of my pilots in the 20th flew the spitfire 14 for his first time, he flew it somewhat like a mustang and killed 3 and rtb'd.

Not sure what this means.  Are you saying he flew it fast, picked lower targets and then extended out of visual range before coming back?  I think you could fly any plane with decent speed like that and land kills.

[JunkyII]

Not sure what this means.  Are you saying he flew it fast, picked lower targets and then extended out of visual range before coming back?  I think you could fly any plane with decent speed like that and land kills.

Example Hoagi from Jokers Jokers

[BoilerDown]

But those guns do make a big difference, if the k4 had a 20mm, it would also prbably be perked.

You mean multiple 20mms.  I usually fly the Yak-9U and its 20mm is supposed to be the best shooting 20mm in the game, but it only has one of them and it takes time to take your target out of the sky with it unless you get a pilot kill.  In fact a lot of pilots are completely willing to give me a crossing shot gambling that I won't be able to hit them hard enough to matter.  One 20mm won't make it perkable, especially with the 20mms available to German AC, more than one means no spinner cannon.

The 30mm is an advantage to the K4, not the only thing keeping it unperked.  It has the engine power to stay out of the fight, wait for you to shift your attention, then dive in and hope for a hit, knowing it can climb away if it missed (thus the untouchable flying timidly comments).  Its my opinion that any aircraft that can be flown such that its untouchable except by perked aircraft should have a low ENY, certainly not 20 ENY.

Also I support the idea (and I've mentioned this idea a few times before) that ENY should vary tour to tour based on popularity in the previous tour.  Aircraft flown all the time should have a low ENY, those mostly ignored should have a high ENY.  This will result in "bargains" that change each tour, resulting in seeing more varied aircraft overall, and make the game more interesting.