F3 and my thoughts, such as they are :)

[JUGgler]

Let's see your before and after stats then, eh?

This.

Stats Schmats, it is just easier. I would have continued if not for the borebom and that my stick went out last night. As I pondered the situation it was clear continuing the "test" was pointless the "truth is the truth" 


JUGgler

[pervert]

So GHI became very good at doing this and started shooting you down in your uberplanes, and lets face it nearly every other plane in the planeset is uber compared to the IL2. The way I see it happen is

1. Player swoops down on GHI expecting an easy kill
2. GHI makes the player overshoot.
3. He makes a long range shot on you as timidly try and zoom away from a completely inferior plane.
4. You cry on 200 or the boards.

Its not that you want to make it harder for GHI people who whine about this want to make it easier for themselves!   why not chop throttle and try and stay in close but out of guns?? Its probably because you are making a timid run on the guy that you get killed, hilarious!  

[JUGgler]

JUGs point wasnt to remove F3 from all of the aircraft that currently utilize it.  Just limit it by not allowing the guns to fire while outside the cockpit.  F3 is rampant in the DA in fighters and JUG's summation affects that arena.  Let's see if we can get JUG to answer one last question:

JUG, if you and I went to the DA to 1 v 1 in say, JUGs...I will use F3 and you can't...do I have any advantage on you and if so, why?

Changeup

Well Changeup I would destroy you in a JUG  ! The advantage would be in your "out of plane" perspective. The ability to have "the whole picture" if you will. Example, say I was diving on your 6, and you were trying to set me up for the overshoot. In F3 you would have a clear picture of what I was doing as I past beneath your plane and in front giving you an unobsrtucted picture of me for your guns solution. Using this example if you were not in F3 you would have to roll to get eyes on me. If you dont have to make this roll the advantage in timing and E retention can be significant IMO.
Now using the same example only I have F3 on and you do not: I am diving fast from your hi6 I have an excellent view of your plane as you try to set up the overshoot, normaly in this situation If I stay fast I will have to time my shot as you will be under my nose and not visible to me, a simple "rudder kick" by you and my guns solution is defeated as I would not see this to react to it. In F3 you could do a "song and dance" beneath my nose and I would see it easy, able to adjust and get the kill. I am not good enough to claim there would be absolute advantage in a duel, although common sense tells me YES! F3 takes the guess work out!
 I would be inerested to see 2 outstanding players with very similar skill try this out in the DA.
Grizz and 2Bighorn would be prime candidates for this. They are both awesome and I would think they would split victories in a 10 fight match 5/5 maybe 6/4 so ANY advantage one of them had would show up in the victory count I believe.

Anyway in my mind there is no question about the advantage F3 gives someone. Is this advantage enough to overcome the advantages say a corsair has over an il2? NO but it is an opportunistic advantage. I also think at times it is the only thing that helps "the vulched" to kick a few of the "vulchers" in the crotch so removing it would be a toss up for me.

Now in regards to ground attack and F3, well that is entirely a whole new matter.

For those who say F3 is to simulate multiple crew members Hmm, last I looked the il2 didn't have eyes in its belly  

With the lame vulchfests that frequent the MA. removing F3 would be mostly bad IMHO!


JUGgler

[warhed]

This.

We have F3 to simulate the situational awareness that bomber crews had in real-life. It's one of those gamey ways HTC makes Aces High fun, and a game, not a full 100% THIS IS REAL LIFE simulator. If you want to game the game, go ahead, there's nothing stopping you. But to think everybody that kills
you in an IL-2 or such other Air2Ground aircraft is using F3 mode, is absolutely absurd.

Its a game, people. A GAME! Why make a big deal out of having F3 mode in, say, an IL-2? Have you ever tried to look around you in an IL-2 NOT using F3 mode? Have fun spotting GV's from the cockpit alone!

If that's the case, give the 110 F3 mode, and the Mossi VI.  The distinction between what planes get F3 modes is not extra eyeballs, it's if it is defined as a Bomber.

[grizz441]

Let's see your before and after stats then, eh?

This.

Not a fair comparison.  Juggler has been flying in F1 mode for years and only in f3 mode for a couple weeks.

[R 105]

 I call F-3 mode the Garden Hose Effect. Just spray the steam and adjust to target and that is that. It is clearly an advantage and if you don't think so go to the DA and see for yourself.

[SunBat]

I just have one question. If F3 is easier, why is it harder for me?

[68ZooM]

One person had around 887 total iL2 kills of which 728 were Air to Air kills 159 were GV's draw your own theory, Gamey is what it is, when in F3 mode and you squeeze the trigger you should go back into F1 view, no pilot ever had a 360 degree view of his plane while fighting, utter BS, also fix the 110 that can launch rockets on the ground, that's a newest one Ive seen 

[maddafinga]

I just have one question. If F3 is easier, why is it harder for me?

I've tried it a couple of times, I think it sucks.  I find it to be very disorienting and hard to relate what I need to be doing as far as flying to what is going on around me.  Also the TrackIR doesn't work in that mode either, so it's keypad views, since I don't have hat switch views on my phone anymore.  It's way harder for me too.

[321BAR]

I've tried it a couple of times, I think it sucks.  I find it to be very disorienting and hard to relate what I need to be doing as far as flying to what is going on around me.  Also the TrackIR doesn't work in that mode either, so it's keypad views, since I don't have hat switch views on my phone anymore.  It's way harder for me too.

i find that in an A20 and IL2 i can get alot more out of the airplane. DA helps me with fighters also incredibly. And thats why i stay MAs for F1 mode for all

[maddafinga]

i find that in an A20 and IL2 i can get alot more out of the airplane. DA helps me with fighters also incredibly. And thats why i stay MAs for F1 mode for all

You should come to the DA with me some time and mix it up.  At the fields, not the lake.  It's incredibly fun and you really can get a much much better feel for the edge of your plane and better at acm to boot in there.  Mostly though, it's a blast.  Dueling for an hour is way better than days in the main arenas. 

[Changeup]

Changeup, you'd only have a slight advantage SA wise. You would be able to see your dead 6 and under your wings, below you.

When it comes to guns, it's all player skill.

I highly recommend you think before you type.  Slight advantage?  Read what you wrote again, lmao..how many aircraft allow you to see under your wings and dead 6 without F3???  Thats just goofy nonsense.  If the con is infront and under your nose, you can see him in F3, without it a good pilot can escape...period.

Changeup

[Changeup]

I just have one question. If F3 is easier, why is it harder for me?

See Grizz's answer.  It took me about 2 weeks to adjust and about 3 or 4 weeks to figure out the gunnery.  In fact, it was very hard to go back to F1 and fire accurately when I quit going to the DA lake and went to the MA.  It was a huge adjustment.

Changeup

[Changeup]

Well Changeup I would destroy you in a JUG  ! The advantage would be in your "out of plane" perspective. The ability to have "the whole picture" if you will. Example, say I was diving on your 6, and you were trying to set me up for the overshoot. In F3 you would have a clear picture of what I was doing as I past beneath your plane and in front giving you an unobsrtucted picture of me for your guns solution. Using this example if you were not in F3 you would have to roll to get eyes on me. If you dont have to make this roll the advantage in timing and E retention can be significant IMO.
Now using the same example only I have F3 on and you do not: I am diving fast from your hi6 I have an excellent view of your plane as you try to set up the overshoot, normaly in this situation If I stay fast I will have to time my shot as you will be under my nose and not visible to me, a simple "rudder kick" by you and my guns solution is defeated as I would not see this to react to it. In F3 you could do a "song and dance" beneath my nose and I would see it easy, able to adjust and get the kill. I am not good enough to claim there would be absolute advantage in a duel, although common sense tells me YES! F3 takes the guess work out!
 I would be inerested to see 2 outstanding players with very similar skill try this out in the DA.
Grizz and 2Bighorn would be prime candidates for this. They are both awesome and I would think they would split victories in a 10 fight match 5/5 maybe 6/4 so ANY advantage one of them had would show up in the victory count I believe.

Anyway in my mind there is no question about the advantage F3 gives someone. Is this advantage enough to overcome the advantages say a corsair has over an il2? NO but it is an opportunistic advantage. I also think at times it is the only thing that helps "the vulched" to kick a few of the "vulchers" in the crotch so removing it would be a toss up for me.

Now in regards to ground attack and F3, well that is entirely a whole new matter.

For those who say F3 is to simulate multiple crew members Hmm, last I looked the il2 didn't have eyes in its belly  

With the lame vulchfests that frequent the MA. removing F3 would be mostly bad IMHO!


JUGgler

Thanks...I will take you up on the JUG thingy...IN

Changeup

[321BAR]

You should come to the DA with me some time and mix it up.  At the fields, not the lake.  It's incredibly fun and you really can get a much much better feel for the edge of your plane and better at acm to boot in there.  Mostly though, it's a blast.  Dueling for an hour is way better than days in the main arenas. 

ive actually trained my squad in there almost every sunday.

It really does help with a little info on what it does and showing the limits of the aircraft followed by how to aim, you can take a bad shot, and make him a good one in a day or two

If i have time ill hop in there with ya bud <S>