Author Topic: The White Flag and the %50 Thing-  (Read 2517 times)

Offline SmokinLoon

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The White Flag and the %50 Thing-
« on: February 05, 2011, 02:35:00 PM »
I've held my tongue for the most part on the white flag and 50% thing until I saw how it effected the game.  I know there were/are a lot of knee jerk reactions and some quick on the draw assumptions when major changes are made, I do my best to not pass judgment and at least ride the change out to see how things pan out.  After a few months of this I've gathered my thoughs-

When the white flag and %50 town down for capture first came out I was a bit surprised, I didn't think HTC would swing *that* far from a current game play standard.  I suppose one could compare it to going from 250ft NOE to 1000ft NOE standard. My first thought was "now we'll see smaller teams taking fields more often and hordes will be far less common."  How wrong I've been.

The white flag removes much of what little "fog of war" Aces High MA had (dar bars and radar dots abound!).  Previously, it took multiple sets of eyes, or multiple passes by a single person to check and double check the new towns to be sure it was capture ready.  With the white flag, it is as obvious as can be.  No more guessing.  No more extra 30 seconds or 1 minute to inspect the town is needed. Just pound it for a short time and watch for the white flag (actually one pass by heavy bombers is all that is needed, even the old square town could not have that done to it), grab the 4-5 auto ack that may still be up, and get troops to the MR.  The process as been VERY simplified.  One would have thought that hordes would be fewer and much less embraced, but the opposite has happened.  The bandwagon effect has really taken hold.  I guess people really like being the bench warmer on winning team because essentially that is what 75% (or more) of the horde members are.   

I read in the forums where HTC claimed that these new towns "were not supposed to be harder to capture" than the old towns.  If the old square towns had 53 (?) buildings and the new towns have 93 (?) buildings, the 50% town down for new town capture is actually easier compared to the old town.  No fuzzy math there.  Add in the fact that a single pass by a heavy bomber, or a single skilled enough 110G-2, Mossi Mk IV, A20, or other such heavy attack aircraft pilot can make the town ready for capture, one has to wonder if HTC went too far in making things easy to get done.

I hope HTC has been watching and has or will come to the conclusion that the %50 town down for capture is simply too easy.  That coupled with the white flag makes for an almost 10 year old XBawk style of game play.  If the white flag is here to stay, then I suggest to make attacking team work for it and get the % up to 80% or better yet 90%.  I'd prefer to get rid of the white flag and get back to %100 town down.  If the object of AH is to provide a realm in which to have simulated WWII combat, then having fields rolled by hordes does not lend very well to that atmosphere.  The current atmosphere seems to lend itself towards "capture the field" more than anything else.

Obviously, there are some that really prefer the XBawk style of game play, and that is fine.  I would hope that HTC would prefer to stay towards a simulation style of game.  There is a balance that needs to be struck between the two, few will argue against that. 
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Offline grizz441

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Re: The White Flag and the %50 Thing-
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2011, 02:41:31 PM »
HTC has a habit of making drastic adjustments instead of minor tweaks.  For example, the NOE radar from 500ft to 65ft.  A full 90 building town to only needing 50% + a confirmation flag.  Or a new sound system and removing the option to manually adjust individual sounds.  A DA message to all DA'rs not to interrupt side base fights with threat of banning for the behavior, and then removing it all together.  I'm sure the list goes on.  Point being, they play hopscotch with the balance line.  

Offline LLogann

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Re: The White Flag and the %50 Thing-
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2011, 02:58:56 PM »
So would making it 75% "fix" your concerns? 
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Offline Dadsguns

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Re: The White Flag and the %50 Thing-
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2011, 03:03:42 PM »
I'm not totally against the way town is in a sense, but it has created some negative aspects which were pointed out when this change came out.
  
The problem seems more with the sides being so lopsided and creating the atmosphere for larger hordes, ENY is in place but it really has little effect on trying to balance anything.
  
As the OP has pointed out, the hordes are coming from these massively lopsided chess pieces and which in essence nurtures these massive hordes to form and roll bases.  A possibility is, if town stays the way it is, then limit all 3 sides to the same amount of players especially since there are very few players that care and are willing enough to  equal out the playing field.  Even this isn't enough.  

That balance needs to be accross the board, which it is not and has not been.


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Offline grizz441

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Re: The White Flag and the %50 Thing-
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2011, 03:04:54 PM »
I'm not totally against the way town is in a sense, but it has created some negative aspects which were pointed out when this change came out.
  
The problem seems more with the sides being so lopsided and creating the atmosphere for larger hordes, ENY is in place but it really has little effect on trying to balance anything.
  
As the OP has pointed out, the hordes are coming from these massively lopsided chess pieces and which in essence nurtures these massive hordes to form and roll bases.  A possibility is, if town stays the way it is, then limit all 3 sides to the same amount of players especially since there are very few players that care and are willing enough to  equal out the playing field.  Even this isn't enough.  

That balance needs to be accross the board, which it is not and has not been.

How does this format create hording any worse than the previous format?  Your argument doesn't make any freakin sense.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2011, 03:14:37 PM by grizz441 »

Offline LLogann

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Re: The White Flag and the %50 Thing-
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2011, 03:12:23 PM »
Hate to agree with the Muppet but I'm rereading it again, and again............  What should be done?  An automatic "re-country?"

How does this is format create hording any worse than the previous format?  Your argument doesn't make any freakin sense.
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Offline CAP1

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Re: The White Flag and the %50 Thing-
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2011, 03:16:15 PM »
htc has to do what they do in an attempt to keep the entire player base happy. this is impossible.


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Offline SunBat

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Re: The White Flag and the %50 Thing-
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2011, 03:18:20 PM »
HTC has a habit of making drastic adjustments instead of minor tweaks.  For example, the NOE radar from 500ft to 65ft.  A full 90 building town to only needing 50% + a confirmation flag.  Or a new sound system and removing the option to manually adjust individual sounds.  A DA message to all DA'rs not to interrupt side base fights with threat of banning for the behavior, and then removing it all together.  I'm sure the list goes on.  Point being, they play hopscotch with the balance line.  
You should be banned for this statement.
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Offline LLogann

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Re: The White Flag and the %50 Thing-
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2011, 03:20:48 PM »
Or just banned from flying Luftwaffe birds........................ ..............   :eek:

You should be banned for this statement.

For a little while?  Maybe?

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Offline shiv

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Re: The White Flag and the %50 Thing-
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2011, 03:32:30 PM »
Percentage needs to be upped for sure, I would think that'll be in the next update anyway. The new town layout initially exacerbated the hording problem, by changing it to 50% HTC ensured they'd only have to change it twice I'm thinking. Probably we'll end up at 70%.

As to the fog of war and the flag, let's keep it. There's just no way for attackers or defenders to go around and count all the buildings.
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Offline lyric1

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Re: The White Flag and the %50 Thing-
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2011, 03:57:31 PM »
Correct me if I am wrong 50% was for a trial period of time until HTC decided otherwise on a percentage number.

Offline caldera

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Re: The White Flag and the %50 Thing-
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2011, 05:10:15 PM »
Initially, the 50% thing was fun.  More bases were under attack, won and lost.  There were smaller numbers of attackers needed to succeed.  It seemed great to me.  Lately, it's back to hordes with a vengeance.  They come in with ridiculous numbers and first de-ack the field.  Then while they have their vulch party,  a few of them take the town down or even a few sets of NOE buffs flatten it unopposed.  WTFG GUYZ!!!  :banana:
I know that is nothing new, but thought things would remain fun with the 50% settings.  We have devolved again into SSDD.  I don't think the hording thing can be fixed.   :(
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Offline SmokinLoon

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Re: The White Flag and the %50 Thing-
« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2011, 05:25:46 PM »
Correct me if I am wrong 50% was for a trial period of time until HTC decided otherwise on a percentage number.

If that is the case, I did not ever see the  post made by HTC personnel stating it was as such.  I would like to assume that all things are "trial based" and can be changes as Hitech sees fit.  There are many ideas made by players that are sound and make a lot of sense, but there seem to be no communication from HTC when it comes as to why things are or are not being changed.

As far as "fixing" my concerns, that is not quite the point.  I'd like to see the 100% town down for capture back into the game and no white flag.  The entire process was longer and far more involved.  Brute force was not the answer, some precision and tact was mandatory.

I strongly disagree with "attackers and defenders are not able to count buildings", I think that is what adds to the "fog of war".  If the white flag is up that means there are more guns on the defenders vs having some of those vulchers on town destroying those last remaining buildings, guns, or inspecting.  Just watch how it happens, the town goes white flag up and there is not a single attacking plane over town because they all are not in vulch mode.  Attacking goons and M3's roll on in unopposed.  The entire process as it currently stands is very very short compared to the previous settings.  A defender could up at a base a sector away and have a fighting chance at getting there and defending. Now, by the time he gets there everything is over and done with in most cases.

As far as the country vs country vs ENY argument goes, perhaps the trigger needs to be set lower for ENY to kick in?  But regardless if there are 20-30 P38's and Mossi's inbound or 20-30 La7's, 110's, and Typhoons inbound, a horde is a horde and quantity has its own quality.  ;)  

    
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Offline Scca

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Re: The White Flag and the %50 Thing-
« Reply #13 on: February 05, 2011, 08:37:39 PM »
If that is the case, I did not ever see the  post made by HTC personnel stating it was as such.

It's not hard to find http://www.hitechcreations.com/News/Software-Updates/version-222-information-page.html
Let me save you some time, it says in the release notes :
Quote
Added the a new host system variable that controls how much of the town needs to be destroyed before it can be captured. There is a flag flying in each town that will be swapped out for a white surrender flag when the damage threshold is reached. At that point troops can be used to make the capture. The initial setting will be at 50% and we'll adjust it from there if needed.

Yes, I think 50% is too low, but I am willing to let it ride till it's changed.  I think it's improving game play personally.
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Offline Crash Orange

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Re: The White Flag and the %50 Thing-
« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2011, 09:25:14 PM »
As far as "fixing" my concerns, that is not quite the point.  I'd like to see the 100% town down for capture back into the game and no white flag.  The entire process was longer and far more involved.  Brute force was not the answer, some precision and tact was mandatory.

Nonsense. Harder town capture makes brute force more necessary and successful. Thirty pairs of eyes make it a lot easier to catch that one little yellow-roofed house that's up.

The reasons for hordes has been discussed here as nauseam and it has nothing to do with the white flag mechanism. Ditto for side balancing. If you think 100% town down captures would do the slightest thing to fix the utterly broken side balancing mechanism, you're dreaming. Side balancing is broken in part because ENY is designed so that it would work for a 2-way war but doesn't work at all for a 3-way war where a side can be outnumbered more than 2-1 across the board with no one having ENY issues. But the main reason side balancing is broken is that people apparently want it broken. Why else do we so often see one side (nits seem to be the worst for this, but all sides do it) decamping for the other LW arena en masse leaving a massive imbalance in both arenas? Plainly they want it that way.

That being said, I agree 50% is too easy. It has nothing to do with style of play, "Xbawks" or otherwise, though, and everything to do with correct balance between offense and defense. I think 80% might be about right.