Vulch fests

[BnZs]

In the spirit of my hero "ack-ack".....

You have the DA for this Politicaly Correct Nonsense or, up from another feild if you don't want to be vulched.

I don't worry about ME being vulched. I worry about going to a field, only to find that the victim supply has dried up because my fellow green guys cut down the giving tree by either completely suppressing any hope uppers have of even getting airborne or outright toolshedding the place.

[bustr]

Means the life span of that particular fight has run its course exactly like every dynamic system in this universe does.

Beginning --- Middle --- End

Pick a new fight, which by the way takes time. You have to paitiently wait for the part in the drama you wanted perpetuated to unfold again for it's breif moment on stage for you to enjoy.

The PC mentality attempts to control others actions to perpetuate ones own feelings of how the universe "should" work. As this particular flavor of human being beleives it's in control of it's environment, so is qualifyed under the guise of "good intentions" to assist others to control thier conduct in favor of it's feelings.

Go start another fight or take your right minded freinds to the DA and Uber fest it "your way, Franky boy". To the moon baby, "the right way"......

Hello Nancy, how's the seats on United first class these days?

[FLS]

Well I suspected you'd miss the whole point but now it's official. Score, fun, and Strategy are different elements and motivations in the game. Of course you could still kill a plane on the ground and vulch. If that's a good strategy for taking a field  you will benefit strategically. Just not for Score. I thought score didn't matter to you? Then why would you stop vulching if the game made it worth less points?  The point of the thread is that if there are those who's behavior and play are motivated by for score, then the scoring system, which is artificial and arbitrary in it's current formulation, could be modified to encourage more fun game play.

It's FUN to think of how that could be accomplished.

With so much game knowlege Krusty, why not engage in the discussion of how to do it? 

The proposal I threw out is a kernal or draft idea. I think is the basis for something that could work. It is far from fully developed.

P.S. I also don't think the ENTIRE game would need to be re-written. In fact I think an add on line or two of code would do just fine.

The scoring system is artificial and arbitrary because it just tracks how many planes you shot down, how accurately you shot, and how quickly you killed them? (I suppose that's a reflection of Hitech and Pyro's relative lack of experience with online flight sims and knowledge of historical air combat.) The Vinkometer you propose would instead show the true awesomeness of certain pilots who are currently overshadowed by sissy pilots with better rankings? And human nature and gameplay would improve as a result?
 
I can't wait.  

While we wait for the 2 lines of code to be written maybe we could just have a dueling ladder or something.  

[fullmetalbullet]

if you really want the credit..you are just going have to be "less" fat and lazy for it and give them just a little chance.

warfare is never gonna be fair, not even in a video game like AH2. you give your opponent 1 chance, 1 chance at all then it will most likely 9 times out of 10 backfire on you. never give your opponents any chance what so ever. its bad enough radar give people the chance to warn the enemy. im not gonna say take it out becuase i do love a bit of a challange but complaining about vulching isnt what you should be complaining about at all.

[oTRALFZo]

warfare is never gonna be fair, not even in a video game like AH2. you give your opponent 1 chance, 1 chance at all then it will most likely 9 times out of 10 backfire on you. never give your opponents any chance what so ever. its bad enough radar give people the chance to warn the enemy. im not gonna say take it out becuase i do love a bit of a challange but complaining about vulching isnt what you should be complaining about at all.

For the record I am not complaining about vulching. Its part of the game and yes..I agree, you dont want to get vulched, up from the other 1000 feilds on the map.
From what I got from the OP, it wasnt his intent to stop vulching, but to give more ppl incentive to up off a capped feild.

Regarding your view on complete conquest, if thats what your playing for..then more power to you. Lemme remind you though that we are not in war, the red icons are not the enemies, Its prob some fat kid behind a joystick Dont take this game so seriously

[RTHolmes]

it wasnt his intent to stop vulching, but to give more ppl incentive to up off a capped feild.

thats how I read it: a wish* for more easy kills on the occasions that a field is deacked and capped ...



edit: * not saying that was the intent, but its certainly a consequence.

[Ack-Ack]

Wasn't it some political philosopher that said, "Vulching is the opiate for the masses" and didn't some English playright penned in one of his famous plays:

"To vulch, or not to vulch: that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The bullets and bombs of outrageous vulches,
Or to take arms against and whine a sea of troubles"


Or as one game developer stated, "Vulching is the reward".


ack-ack

[bustr]

I vote Ack-Ack moderator in chief.

Mikey doesn't like anyone.......

[fullmetalbullet]

all im saying is you should post topics on the forums about vulching. it happends deal with it, and al that i said was a way aof putting things.and yes i do play for conquest, there nothing else going for this game to be honest. i mean i use to play it for fun but with kids playing this game, well then theres no fun in it anymore so i just play to win now. anyways my point is there nothing you can do about vulching even if you dont get a kill for it people are still going to do it so why bother posting it on the forums in HTC really knows that changing this wont stop the vulching. just deal with it. i dont come on her whine about vulching, becuase thats what you guys are doing. posting topics like these and agreeing with them even though that probrably some of you if not all have pick off people when they try to take off. its not something bad its just what you do to keep them from attacking you or your buddies. so no this wish of juglers shouldnt be added or asked for, becuase HTC most likely wont do anything or it will probrably make alot of people leave.

[PJ_Godzilla]

I think it's possible, even easy. The film viewer has all the info required. All you would need is one line of code that calculated your running SA [situational advantage] every 10 or 100 miliseconds. Don't think that's a lot of over heads. The real issue is the logic of what constitutes a low or high score at given point in time. The time is critical.
Example. I see a high bandit and engage him, suck him into a fight, eventually getting him to blead of his speed until I turn the tables and kill him. A the time of the kill, our e-states may be equal, or even better for me, but I should get high points for that kind of kill. So the logic would need to look at SA over time with more points going to positive slopes [SA starting out bad and getting better over the time] and low scores going to flat SA over time [ I dove on AFK pilot and vulched him].  Negative slope [I started with more E but manuvered on to his 6 and blead E to equal and killed him, yeilds something in the middle. It's getting the algorithm around slope-to-kill and the time constant over which to calculate the slope that needs regression. I would use film of engagements to calculate the algorythm, and them compare to experts who subjectively evaluate the situations for "sissyness" and merit, then correlate to the subjective evaluations.

Is there a way to dump the plane/speed/alt info from the film viewer to a .csv file?

Well, you've just raised the ugly specter of ac interactions. In your postulated 1v1 case, the historical state tracking is simple. Now consider 3rd party hotdog "ColonCowboy" (just throwing a handle out there) who comes in and cherry picks the benefit of your e-state clawback. What is the code to do with his historical e-state? If he was low and slow before raping your good work, does he get scored as well as you would've? How does it eval him as having been engaged or not engaged?

We've got a shared employer. My anecdotal experience with software tools says that they start simple but inevitably get very complicated, once they have to account for a global range of eventualities. I'm just throwing one out there. Now consider the explosion in interactivity you'd see in any common furball.

[Vinkman]

The scoring system is artificial and arbitrary because it just tracks how many planes you shot down, how accurately you shot, and how quickly you killed them? (I suppose that's a reflection of Hitech and Pyro's relative lack of experience with online flight sims and knowledge of historical air combat.) The Vinkometer you propose would instead show the true awesomeness of certain pilots who are currently overshadowed by sissy pilots with better rankings? And human nature and gameplay would improve as a result?
 
I can't wait.  

While we wait for the 2 lines of code to be written maybe we could just have a dueling ladder or something.  

Exactly!   Your sarcasm on the current scoring system makes for good copy, I laughed, but bad analysis. The only objective historically was to kill bad guys. How fancy you did it, or how much fun you had doing it, was irrelivent. In AH, a GAME, the score it to provide a measure that a player tries to excel in, for the sake of creating more competition and braggin rights among players, in the hopes that achievement of such a goal will drive more fun game play.



It is all about incentives. You get what you measure. If you want a more fun game, introduce metrics that reward fun game play. Want a boring game? Do the opposite. Sissy flying is boring. THe current metrics reward and promote sissy flying.


Not sure I understand the case for sissy flying, but if there's good critical thinking out there that I've missed, please lay it on me. HAven't heard it yet.

 

[FLS]

I'm glad you took that as it was intended.  On a more serious note, if the rationale for your idea requires you to insult other players because their game play choices don't match yours, then you probably don't have a good idea. It's more likely that you're just airing your prejudices. I used to have a narrower view of what was right and proper in a combat flight sim but I've come to appreciate the clash of competing agendas. I believe it keeps the game more interesting as the years go by.   

[Krusty]

Vinkman, your problem is that you're trying to present an objective argument as if you're only considering the facts, but the words and the ideas behind them are totally subjective.

[PJ_Godzilla]

Not sure I understand the case for sissy flying, but if there's good critical thinking out there that I've missed, please lay it on me. HAven't heard it yet.

 

I'll bite on this one. What is one man's "sissy flying" is just another man's sound tactical planning. For example, when hispd boom and zooms from fast and high in his perked Tempest, is his skill less or more than the guy who fails to plan such that he has an advantageous e-state when he arrives on-scene?

I have to work with this one constantly since I'm using the g-14 constantly lately (and with gondos). I never want to get caught low and slow and thus have to plan. Your proposed metric rewards a good dogfighter but a bad tactician. Consider Hartmann's "rules", for they are "sissy flying" writ large. Further, the proposed metric distorts the "real world" aspect of the game by failing to reward that which was doubtless of salient import to the RW pilot ; killing with minimal risk. To me, losing that aspect of the game would make it less fun.

OTOH, you could vary the rules by Arena. The Vinkometer looks tuned to more like a DA.

[Vinkman]

Vinkman, your problem is that you're trying to present an objective argument as if you're only considering the facts, but the words and the ideas behind them are totally subjective.

This seems true enough if I'm trying to come up with metric to determine the better pilot. But all we really want is to have metrics that reward people for fun play. I think fun is the objective. 

and to PJ_Godzilla's point. 

Come on, Hartmann? He only one life to give, and put it on the line everytime he went up. that's never sissy flying.

But in AH sissy flying wastes time, and is boring. Ask this question: If everyone got "smart" and flew in a self preservating way, would the game be any fun? 400 guys in P-51Ds all at max alt looking for someone flying with their eyes closed.  That doesn't sound like fun for anyone. I put forth the idea that those sissy flyers can only do what they do, because others choose to dog fight each other. Without dogfighting there wouldn't be any targets for sissy flyers, so the game wouldn't be any fun for anyone...the game would colapse.

People will always choose their strategies, and this scroring idea doesn't try to adress all the reasons people fly the way they do. It only adresses those who fly for score. I think it's counter productive to have a scoring system that encourages people to fly like sissy's and call it smart. It's only "smart" flying because their objective is to get a high score. So I'm proposing change the scoring system so that smart flying is where one succeeds in more challenging situations. 

It is my opinion that will make the game more fun for everyone, and hence worth trying to attempt.

And always fun to discuss.