Author Topic: p40E vs early war model spits advice needed.  (Read 1722 times)

Offline Tyrannis

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p40E vs early war model spits advice needed.
« on: February 11, 2011, 04:47:59 PM »
first off, i love the p40. its my third favorite early war plane. (the p39 being first, p38G second).
i would love to fly it more often, but most people in there ive run into are flying some model of spit.
and ive never been able to survive a DF against a spit in a p40. because of this ive shy'ed away from flying it (opting for the hurricanes instead).
i would like to start flying it again.
so does anyone have any helpful advice on how to beat early war spits in a p40? or atleast an advantage i could try to use against them?

any suggestions are welcome and greatly appreciated  :salute

Offline Krusty

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Re: p40E vs early war model spits advice needed.
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2011, 04:52:27 PM »
Shoot them when they're not looking.


Spit = easy mode.

P-40E = not-so-easy mode.

Offline MachFly

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Re: p40E vs early war model spits advice needed.
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2011, 04:56:22 PM »
Sorry got nothing. Spitfires are really good.
"Now, if I had to make the choice of one fighter aircraft above all the others...it would be, without any doubt, the world's greatest propeller driven flying machine - the magnificent and immortal Spitfire."
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flew Spitfires, Hurricanes, P-51s, P-47s, and F-4s

Offline caldera

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Re: p40E vs early war model spits advice needed.
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2011, 04:58:45 PM »
Roll rate is your friend.  Excepting the 16, Spits aren't very good at quick direction changes.  The P-40 has great flaps and can turn fight at pretty slow speeds too.  Though a smart Spit driver will slow you down and then go verticle, which you are way outclassed.  You can BnZ them, but they build energy as fast as you will lose it.  Make your shots count.  You can't run away, so that doesn't work either.  I let them acquire my six (which is gonna happen anyway) and force the overshoot.  Spits hold their energy well, which you can use against them that way.  Equal pilots - you're probably going to lose all things considered.   
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Offline Krusty

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Re: p40E vs early war model spits advice needed.
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2011, 05:02:44 PM »
Caldera... The P-40 has bad flaps. While they will actually deploy at high speeds they are terrible, inefficient, and split-flap type meant for maximum drag to land with. Use of them during combat will get you killed. Not to mention first hit EVERY time will remove one of them, and if it's deployed when lost you're in a world of pain. If anything they are for high-speed break turns meant to convert E to angles, and not for use in stalling turns.

The P-40E can NOT fight at very low speeds. I don't know where you get this from... Once you slow down your turn rate goes into the gutter. This plane is best turned WELL above stall speeds. If you drop below 150mph you're in big trouble. Best turn rate is about 250mph. Do NOT stall fight this plane.


It doesn't turn fight well without a lot of E. It doesn't regain E. It's best bet against any plane that is superior is to run the other way and look for something else to kill.


Against even the early spitfire models, the P-40E is somewhat outclassed. It really cannot compete unless you REALLY know what you're doing.



(and ya don't learn what you're doing by using it against spits! It's a quick trip back to the tower that way and you don't learn much)


EDIT: Sorry, didn't mean to be harsh. The rest of your advice is good (make shots count, etc, overshoots, etc).
« Last Edit: February 11, 2011, 05:04:56 PM by Krusty »

Offline caldera

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Re: p40E vs early war model spits advice needed.
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2011, 05:10:44 PM »
I know all about the glass flaps, Krusty.  And I disagree with you on slow turn fights.  I have had many on the deck fights (against Spits) at glacial speed and won because of the flaps.  Once you are low and slow, you are at his mercy - if he is smart enough to take the fight verticle.  You have to be on your A game of course.  But if I can do it, anyone can.  :aok

And if he runs from every "superior" plane, the only thing left is to look for  enemy P-40Bs.  :rolleyes:
"Then out spake brave Horatius, the Captain of the gate:
 To every man upon this earth, death cometh soon or late.
 And how can man die better, than facing fearful odds.
 For the ashes of his fathers and the temples of his Gods."

Offline Bubbajj

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Re: p40E vs early war model spits advice needed.
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2011, 09:19:16 PM »
I'll pass on what I've figured out. A P40 likes to have alt to work with. It does well BnZ for sure. Will dive like a brick and remain stable. It is a handful slow but can be managed with practice. I've found the best results with spits is to drop a notch of flaps at the merge and pull hard into the Immelman. A spit doesn't bleed off E well and will have a hard time turning with you on the initial and he can't match the high speed turn. I have yet to find a spit pilot that won't pull like the dickens on the merge to get around. This is where it gets tricky, you have to make your shots count. You won't get many chances. I've had some pretty good luck against less skilled cartoon pilots but if they know what they are doing a P40 is at a triple disadvantage: turn, speed, climb. Also, don't discount it in the vertical. I don't mean long climb fights, I mean getting enough speed up to pull the nose over the top in a loop. It is fairly controllable at the top and dumping flaps judiciously will help tighten the vertical circle. I've had spits helplessly fly circles around me as I keep them in my lift vector. Six fifties will saw the wings off a spit in a jiffy. The P40 is not an easy mode plane for sure. It will buck and flop and, at a certain point, will simply stop flying at the most inopportune moments. They are a hoot though and any kill in a P40 is a kill well earned.

Oh yeah, they will, indeed, bleed E quickly. Had a royal hoot in AvA against the 109s forcing overshoots.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2011, 09:22:13 PM by Bubbajj »

Offline JOACH1M

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Re: p40E vs early war model spits advice needed.
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2011, 09:23:30 PM »
Get them to overshoot and blast them
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Offline Masherbrum

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Re: p40E vs early war model spits advice needed.
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2011, 06:36:31 AM »
Shoot them when they're not looking.


Spit = easy mode.

P-40E = not-so-easy mode.

A Spit 1 is "Easy mode"?   Sorry, I cannot agree with that being included with Spixteens and the other fuel injected Spits.    With them you do not have to be mindful of a "negative G stall" at anytime during, any maneuver.    Let alone, have to be thinking "ahead of your opponent" to try and avoid them.
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Offline Oldman731

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Re: p40E vs early war model spits advice needed.
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2011, 09:07:00 AM »
A Spit 1 is "Easy mode"?   Sorry, I cannot agree with that being included with Spixteens and the other fuel injected Spits.    With them you do not have to be mindful of a "negative G stall" at anytime during, any maneuver.    Let alone, have to be thinking "ahead of your opponent" to try and avoid them.

Agreed.  Spit I, and to a large degree the 14, are not easy-to-fly-well planes.

But...the others are...!

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Offline Debrody

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Re: p40E vs early war model spits advice needed.
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2011, 11:03:26 AM »
Spit 1 and 14 arent easy to fly?
Well flying the spit1 against ponies, 109ks, etc, sure thats not easy. But try it against planes from its era, emils, hurri1s, c202s, p40Bs. If you still say its not easy mode, something must be wrong.
Spit14? If you want to turnfight against a spit8, sure it isnt easy mode. But in the tipical MA engage(pick) and run role, its one of the bests. Climbs like nothing, has one-shot-kill guns, and can chase down anything but a tempest. And still outturns many planes, ponies, jugs, 190s, tiffies, so every plane what can catch it. Isnt it easy-mode?

About the p40, im not an expert, but in my opinion, both Krusty and Caldera are both right. Its flaps are rubbish when its about producing lift, they mostly generate drag. Is it good or bad? In a downhill scissors or defensive helix situation, those flaps are your friends, easy to overshoot anything couse you can be much slower than them. But when its about flat turning or rolling scissors, those flaps are really worthless, and combined with the weak engine, the spits have all the advantages. So the p40 has very limited options. Initiate a defensive helix and HOPE that the spit wont break from it, and then you may get one-two snapshots. But generally the p40 has no chance.
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Offline Wmaker

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Re: p40E vs early war model spits advice needed.
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2011, 11:32:40 AM »
A Spit 1 is "Easy mode"?   Sorry, I cannot agree with that being included with Spixteens and the other fuel injected Spits.   

I haven't heard of a Merlin with fuel injection.

All Spits in AH have carburators...
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Offline Masherbrum

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Re: p40E vs early war model spits advice needed.
« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2011, 11:48:36 AM »
Sorry.  The others don't suffer from negative G's.
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Offline Oldman731

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Re: p40E vs early war model spits advice needed.
« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2011, 12:11:25 PM »
Spit 1 and 14 arent easy to fly?
Well flying the spit1 against ponies, 109ks, etc, sure thats not easy. But try it against planes from its era, emils, hurri1s, c202s, p40Bs. If you still say its not easy mode, something must be wrong.
Spit14? If you want to turnfight against a spit8, sure it isnt easy mode. But in the tipical MA engage(pick) and run role, its one of the bests. Climbs like nothing, has one-shot-kill guns, and can chase down anything but a tempest. And still outturns many planes, ponies, jugs, 190s, tiffies, so every plane what can catch it. Isnt it easy-mode?

I'm just a pathetic pilot, sorry.

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Offline Debrody

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Re: p40E vs early war model spits advice needed.
« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2011, 12:29:28 PM »
Nope, sir, youre probably a good pilot who has balls to make a spit14 turn  :salute
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