Author Topic: The top 10 reasons the allies won the Rumble 2001 (Read 3162 times)

Hristo · « **Reply #15 on:** July 15, 2001, 05:31:00 AM »

Guys, stop it. While I agree 3:0 says something, we can't rob Allies their victory.

IMO, it is the Spit factor. A cage match, without chance to "extend" vs Spitfires requires highly skilled and trained pilots. Squadies flying together, not last minutes made flights. And acting as a team. Otherwise it is a slaughter we saw there. Partly due to the nature of Rumble itself, partly due to preparational errors on Axis side, we let the Spitfire factor win.

I tried something for a change. After my flight got killed in Fight1, I allowed them any plane allowed. 2/3 of my flight went for Ki61. And they did well, it was our Spitfire.

You know what ? I think Axis would win the Rumble if we all flew Zekes. C'est la vie

R4M · « **Reply #16 on:** July 15, 2001, 05:37:00 AM »

7. No nikki's were allowed

LOL!!!!! so the allied UFO was there, but the axis one not

that explains a lot.

the fact that the best LW pilots (by far) are not in AH should be a heavy factor in deciding the rumble. I dont know if it has been but I am sure it has.

Let them think they are better. They are not.

.

[ 07-15-2001: Message edited by: R4M ]

Creamo · « **Reply #17 on:** July 15, 2001, 06:17:00 AM »

R4metzass, that had got to be your most retarded post yet, only next to when you couldn’t get out of bed over a CNN reported bus wreck, or the classic, “wrong guy for the community” laugher.

If this whole Rumble thing deserved one simple courteous outcome, it would be regardless of the victors, only the pilots that flew it comment on it. (At least in the critical department that is.)

For you to say it was decided by another “UFO” (you dumb toejam) although typical of you, is still so absurd it almost amazes me. What part of the historical matchups seems so unfair?

The guys that refused to participate, whether it was by quitting the AH community, or were worried about the outcome, or whatever lame reason, please do exactly what you did come crunch time. Hide, quit, and be very absently quiet.

Goofing on guys, teasing, slinging toejam to stir up rivals, and therefore stiff competition, is all apart of it, and I’d be taking my lumps if the outcome were different.

But it wasn’t.

Creamo · « **Reply #18 on:** July 15, 2001, 06:20:00 AM »

Ooops, forgot this classic -

"the fact that the best LW pilots (by far) are not in AH should be a heavy factor in deciding the rumble.

Oh brother...

janneh · « **Reply #19 on:** July 15, 2001, 06:22:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Wmaker:
fight 1: Spitfire IX vs Bf-109G2
fight 2: Spitfire IX vs Bf-109G2
fight 3: allthough we had only 7 guys that time we did ok, yes we had G-10s...

And another view:
Fight 1: P-47D-11 vs 109G2
Fight 2: P-47D-25 vs 109G2,KI-61
Fight 3: P-47D-30 vs 109G10,190

Hristo · « **Reply #20 on:** July 15, 2001, 07:49:00 AM »

It was me who came with plane choices. It was ment to be a historical matchup, mainly European Western Front. Fight 2 having Japanese, Soviet and Italian planes was just a concession to players who like those planes.

Niki and C-Hog were left out because of possible FM arguments etc.

I still consider the planeset good. In an arena type of fight, Axis might have stood better chance. We will not know it until we try it. In cage type of fight, where you can't run, Spitfire gets the edge. Simple as that. It is my impression that if all Axis flew Zeke, we would do even better - SA gets overload, there is no room to run. With an average AH pilot, mind you. Most decent sticks can beat Zeke even in cage type of fight, but not your average player.

As for pilots, I agree some great sticks left. It happens that they were good LW pilots. From last year Rumble team only I was there. Nobody else. That speaks for itself. Still, new pilots gave their best effort and it would be poor taste from me to criticize their flying. I can only thank them.

IMO
It was just that the fight was inclined towards most average-pilot friendly plane. Its strengths were pronounced, its weaknesses were dampened. Leave the Spits out, give allies Jugs and P51s. Give Axis 109F-4. Stack tham in cages. Some Allied pilots will stay untouchable, most will get shot down. IMO

janneh · « **Reply #21 on:** July 15, 2001, 08:13:00 AM »

IMO spits had the major role in this fight. Without them the story would have been different. They headed straight to nme's and started fight dragging 109's & 190's lower. By that, jugs & stangs had enought time to climb with their poor climbrate. That was great plan and it worked, S! sancho.

Good fights!

SirLoin · « **Reply #22 on:** July 15, 2001, 08:15:00 AM »

That's it!!..I have to fly in one of these rumbles now..Cav,how about us winging together for one of these?(or with your group)

Wmaker · « **Reply #23 on:** July 15, 2001, 08:59:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by janneh:

And another view:
Fight 1: P-47D-11 vs 109G2
Fight 2: P-47D-25 vs 109G2,KI-61
Fight 3: P-47D-30 vs 109G10,190

I see Spitfires taking off in the screenshots you posted to the screenshots and images section.

Quote

Originally posted by janneh:
IMO spits had the major role in this fight. Without them the story would have been different. They headed straight to nme's and started fight dragging 109's & 190's lower. By that, jugs & stangs had enought time to climb with their poor climbrate. That was great plan and it worked, S! sancho.

So, there were Spitfires in your cage too, right?

----------------

1Wmaker1

JG_Sunbird · « **Reply #24 on:** July 15, 2001, 09:03:00 AM »

Man, am i chocked and disappionted! That you Golly-gee goatroping Rednecks didn't had the balls to show up in a REAL 42 plane. All though the SpitIX saw first action in VERY small numbers at the end of 42 and mostly at the channelfront, it's real kicking Jeryass primetime was in Africa and Sicily spring 43.
Forgiven is that you Yanks obviously are missing the P-40, but I realy thought you guys had some guts and where showing up in the SpitV.

ZheKraut

P.S
Ok, it was my first rumble and I appreciate initiatives like that and i can see the entertaining typical US showmanship potentional, allá wrestling, in it. Hell, it could be a ball if we all flew the LA-7, but to all history guys i'd say: Stay out of it and join the check six and special event arangments.

Vladd · « **Reply #25 on:** July 15, 2001, 09:06:00 AM »

Fight 1 : Spits v 109G2s. Yes, Allies could be expected to win.

Fight 2: More options open to the Axis. A combined Ki61 / Zeke force for instance should have beaten any Allied force over-reliant on Spits.

Could have gone either way.

Fight 3: Axis could have taken all G10s and outclimbed the Allies all day long. But as Janneh said above most LW in my cage at least went straight after our small force of decoy Spits which gave the P51s and P47s the chance to engage on favourable terms. No way should a humble 1942 Spit9 EVER shoot down a G10 or D9, even in a cage fight. That's nothing to do with alleged FM inaccuracies, it's to do with the way the planes are flown.

Axis should have won Round 3 given what was available.

Hristo's right. The planeset was good.

Vladd

Creamo · « **Reply #26 on:** July 15, 2001, 09:06:00 AM »

As for pilots, I agree some great sticks left. It happens that they were good LW pilots. From last year Rumble team only I was there.

What does that tell you about how "good" those pilots were?

A good pilot need not be the best ALT monkey who can run away anytime they find adversity, odds against them, or even where the advantage has deteriorated to even odds.

Ya might even say a nod would be given to the guys that stick with this great product in it’s growing stages, not only cause it helps HTC, and all the community, but it says a lot about the person that doesn’t have a toejam fit about every little idiosyncrasy, and run away from everything that doesn’t suit there particular needs all the time.

YA think?

janneh · « **Reply #27 on:** July 15, 2001, 09:17:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Wmaker:

So, there were Spitfires in your cage too, right?

Sure was. I never said anything else. What I was pointing was my view and what I flew.

Sancho · « **Reply #28 on:** July 15, 2001, 09:51:00 AM »

Yep, we used Spits, jugs, and ponies in the SE cage near field 18. Original plan was to focus on jugs and P51s, but I had some guys who whined excessively about this

and since the Rules of Engagement (agreed on by both sides well before the fight) allowed me to pick whatever planeset I wanted, I added a small contingent of spits. They were the minority every frame and certainly didn't do all the killing, but they did rack up quite a record of kills. <S>

IMO, planeset (the eternal spit whine is amusing) had nothing to do with our victory. THe LW in our cage tended to get spread out too thin and although they usually were above us allies, they attacked singly and got themselves killed. The LW lacked unit cohesion--that's why they lost. Even with 10 planes against our 9 in frame two.

For more info, you can read my writeup in this thread: http://www.hitechcreations.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=53&t=000027

<S> all. It was a good fight.

Midnight · « **Reply #29 on:** July 15, 2001, 09:56:00 AM »

Fight 2

P-51B vs 109-G2 and 190-A5

Victory 4 by Midnight of Cage 2 Combat Group

-----------------------------
Wing up, Get kills, Be happy!

Midnight CO

The 412th is actively seeking P-51 Mustang pilots. E-mail me for more information davidlj@charter.net

[ 07-15-2001: Message edited by: Midnight ]