The top 10 reasons the allies won the Rumble 2001

[skernsk]

Originally posted by JG_Sunbird:
Man, am i chocked and disappionted! That you Golly-gee goatroping Rednecks didn't had the balls to show up in a REAL 42 plane. All though the SpitIX saw first action in VERY small numbers at the end of 42 and mostly at the channelfront, it's real kicking Jeryass primetime was in Africa and Sicily spring 43.
Forgiven is that you Yanks obviously are missing the P-40, but I realy thought  you guys had some guts and where showing up in the SpitV.


ZheKraut

Spit 5 outturns the Spit 9 therefor it would have faired even better!
FDB's also took the .303 loadout.  Seems to me the G-10 was also in the rumble...I'm no luftwaffe expert like R4M but that was a 1943 or later wasn't it?

As for R4M and his silly remarks....refer to Creamo's post as he hit the nail and the Tard on the head.  Just because an Allied plane (Spit) outturns an Axis plane does not make it a UFO.  Check the history books pal....it was like that in real life.

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<RANT ASIDE>

It was a great event...thanks to Nash and the rest of the oprganizers.  As for the Axis guys in cage 4 <S> to you all.  We had us a classis free - for - all rumble like we were meant to!

Looking forward to another one!

[Wmaker]

Originally posted by janneh:


Sure was. I never said anything else. What I was pointing was my view and what I flew.
   

Ok, I understood you were talking about all the planes that were used in the three fights in your cage like I was. Sorry for the misunderstanding, glad we got that cleared out.

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1Wmaker1
 

[ 07-15-2001: Message edited by: Wmaker ]

[Nifty]

Dunno about the rest of you guys that flew spits, but my kills came when the 109's came lower and started turning.  When they flew the G10's in frame 3, they wiped the floor with us, because they stayed fast and didn't turn down low.  There was plenty of room to run from the "UFO" (HA!) spits.  

and just FYI, the Spit V was only available in the first frame.  I wanted to fly it, but was told our cage was Spit IX's only.  The Spit V is a smidge slower than the IX, but turns a little tighter.  Has the same 303/20mm armament.  

In any case, talk to the creators of the planesets and ROE if you have a problem with the Spit IX being flown in all 3 frames.  The plane was available, and that's what our lead (I flew with the FDBs, btw) said we were flying.  

<S!> to all you guys, especially Nash for putting this together!   I had a blast, even when I got killed in frame 3 (I was dumb that frame.  damn beer.   )

[Nashwan]

That you Golly-gee goatroping Rednecks didn't had the balls to show up in a REAL 42 plane. All though the SpitIX saw first action in VERY small numbers at the end of 42 and mostly at the channelfront, it's real kicking Jeryass primetime was in Africa and Sicily spring 43.

First RAF squadron to convert to Spit IXs June 42. Four squadrons in action during Dieppe August 42 (not at Dieppe unfortunately). Around a dozen squadrons equipped during 42.
109G10 first use around mid 44.
One of those planes doesn't belong in a 42 scenario, and it certainly ain't the Spit.

[lord dolf vader]

i was axis flyin at base 10 i believe. we were  totaly uncoordinated. on rw after the first flight i could hear nothin but one guy with his vox on breathing. in every frame the allies we fought were in a coordinated group with voice comms tight little pack . and far faster aircraft. every time i died it was at the hand of 2 or 3 aircraft alone. no organizaton on axis side and tons of nubys  = easy empty victory and no fun at all for the axis players. that is what cavaler is talking about. and he was right from my prospective.

obviously this was not the intention and the people in charge tried very hard to make it fair. mayby next time it wont be squads with faster planes aginst every on else.

jello

[skernsk]

You fought against us Jello.  I had my spit on full WEP and chased you in circles arounf the dam cage in the first frame!  You were definately faster than we were.

Enough about planes.  Seems you hit it on the head with lack of orgainization on the Axis side.  That is not a shot BTW...just the fact that we were all on RW..very vocal and were constantly watching out for each other.

[SOB]

We may have been disorganized on the Axis side, but I flew with great pilots in the K9 arena, and we got beat by great Allied pilots.

The Allies seemed to be well organized and they flew great.  That's why they won.

Great job Nash and the CMs and everyone else involved in setting this up!  I know it's a huge event and takes a lot of prep, but how about every 6 months?  eh?  


SOB

[Urchin]

Hehe.. I got my buns shot off in the first frame- didn't know there was a second frame or I woulda stuck around (logged to go eat).  All in all, we weren't poorly organized, we had a plan, it just fell apart once the shooting started ;-)  <S> to the event organizers and to the Allied flyers ;-)

[Zippatuh]

I was with one squadie, Swoop, and the rest of the 56 in K9 under Vladd.  My RW was pork’d and I had no voice coms but it was definitely apparent there was a plan involved.  Did I really have to know it?  No.  This was my plan inside Vladd’s plan.  DON’T LOOSE YOUR WINGMAN!  There were several times I had contacts within 1.5k and never turned for them.  It all just seemed to come together.

Fight 1:  Spit IX - Highlight Swoop, don’t loose track of him.  Result: I got 3 kills and we both made it as well as 6 other of our cage.

Fight 2:  Spit IX – Highlight Swoop, don’t loose track of him.  Result:  I got one kill and an assist.  Made it to the Axis runway in the center cage, and landed at the end of the runway with oil damage.  Ground capped   3 of our cage made it.

Fight 3:  P51D – Highlight Vladd, don’t loose track of him.  Result:  I got an assist and a kill but the 109 I shredded from wingtip to wingtip decided to break up and relieve itself of its left wing completely, and promptly deposited it in my cockpit.  8 of the cage made it.

At any one time I was never farther then 4k from my wingie and was always looking for them.  I think we won that ring because of the way Vladd split us up and the amount of cooperation and wingman tactics.

<S> to all that was involved.  I had a great time.  Did I also mention that I really thought it was going to go the other way?

Zippatuh

[Zigrat]

The allies beat us fair and square. here is my assesment of why we lost.

1) Disorganization. My original plans were for a 16 pilot combat group. On game day, I have 90% of my guys show up, but was fored to make some join other leaders who didnt practice with their groups/confirm attendance/etcera. This hurt both them (because their pilots hadnt yet flown with them at all) and me (because i didnt have the pilots in my group who I'd trained with)

2) Planesets. I'm not arguing the flight models, because i think they are accurate. But the fact is, that since Nash had the takeoffs set to 10,000 ft. the engagement altitude in all three fights was well over 20,000 ft. This gives a heavy advantage to the allies, who in frame 1 in my cage utilized spitfire F.IX and the P47-d11, both planes whoch outclimb, outgun, and outturn outgun the 109-g2 and 190 a5 at those altitudes (20-25000 ft). I personally dont think the D11 should have been included in the first frame, its a early '44 plane not a mid '42 one.

3) Same thing kind of for frame 2. Saying spits could be easily beaten by ki-61 and zekes is kinda silly, considering the engagement altitudes again. The spits blower gives it really high speed and climb (comparatively) vs axis aircraft at the high altitudes forced by the rumble terrain. Additionally, the P51B (early 44 aircraft) which was included *drastically* outperforms our early 44 aircraft we were given (the 190 a8, which everyone knows is a dog, especially at high altitudes).

frame 3? I can't argue with frame 3, the axis were given a fair planeset to compete with (g10s and doras) and still lost. What I will attribute this (frame 3) to is the "general population" flying instead of handpicked groups by hristo and hangtime. I think frame 3, with a closed group of 16 on 16 would go to the axis, who most likely have better aircraft for the rumble. But with the hodgepodge of attendees (some of whom were just flying axis for the kick of it) the allies, whos planes are easier to fly, but not better. (IE the p51 is easier to fly than the 109 g10, but i definitely woudlnt call it better, id say they're equal)

[Creamo]

You had to attribute frame 3 to something Zig, otherwise the other 2 frames excuses fall flat. How in the hell could Doras and G10's not just dominate?

But to say squads like the FDB helped win out of organization is absurd.

[Hristo]

If we had full 9./JG54 flying in one sector, LeLv 34 (full) in another, Assassins (full) in 3rd, the outcome might have been different. Instead, our force mainly consisted of individuals who have never flown together before, pilots flying Axis just to fill up the numbers etc. with only fragments of squads in each sector.

Pilots in my sector came all from different squads. I knew it from the start, I tried to make room for other FL to recruit and pick the remaining pilots. They still did well though, just Allies did better.

[JG_Sunbird]

Für Nashwan:

On
19 August, 6,000 Canadian troops were put ashore at Dieppe for a large-scale raid. Code-named Operation Jubilee, the raid was a costly failure but provided invaluable lessons for subsequent seaborne invasions. Of the 67 RAF squadrons committed in support, 48 were of Spitfires - 42 with Mk Vs, four with Mk IXs and two with Mk VIs. Of the 106 Allied aircraft lost, 88 were fighters, most of them Spitfires

[Wmaker]

I tried to lead the group in which jello flew. Because of the reason I won't discuss here I got the wingleader job about 60 mins before the 1st frame started. I had only one guy (Harppa) from the roster I was supposed to fly with. All the rest were walk-ons which I tried to desperately recruit. It was the first time for me to lead a flight ever in AH. Pretty obviously it was totally wrong place and time for it but I didn't have a choise. I couldn't get everyone on RW ect. ect. It was a total hell really. Nothing worked the way it should have. It was the first time I ever used Mission editor. I know it isn't THAT complicated interface or anything but using at first was slow and not everything went as it should have. Again because of the reasons I won't go into here I was pretty damn frustrated and wanted to quit the whole thing alltogether but when Hristo assigned flight leader's job to me I didn't want to let him or the whole rumble-crowd down because I had registered for the event and was expected to be there. I want to make clear that I'm not whining here. Just telling you how it was. I have the whole thing on film if someone wants to see it. I'm telling you this so you'd know that the Axis flight you met in the top cage hadn't been planning/practising for this for a month all night long, thats all.

Nino, I did my best, sorry.  

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1Wmaker1
 

[Creamo]

If we had full 9./JG54 flying in one sector

If, they were flying, IF, that is. But they aint. They quit, and cried, and what not.

Aren’t you talking about how things would be different using a squad that is so adamant about disliking HTC and this product they add “Today’s Number 4” after their squad callsign like a bunch of fools?

What your saying is if you had just the right circumstances, a different unrealistic plane matchup, and the best pilots, you could win.

No toejam Sherlock.

Keep the excuse pool coming, this is really fun reading.

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[ 07-15-2001: Message edited by: Creamo ]