Author Topic: Kids these days  (Read 3961 times)

Offline gyrene81

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Re: Kids these days
« Reply #150 on: March 03, 2011, 02:16:17 PM »
:rofl Ahh, I see putting labels on me and trying to fit me in some category some how will help your argument.  You can't even see what is wrong with what you wrote up there.  You don't pull a knife one someone because of respect towards life.  Because it is wrong. etc.  In your world, you only don;t do something because you may get punished.  So, if no one would find out, it is ok to pull that knife since there wont be any punishment.
reading comprehension problem i see...if the parents didn't teach the kid respect for life...then fear of punishment worked on the playground...get the idea now? i understand this concept is beyond your comprehension but something for you to ponder...the only difference between a law abiding citizen and a criminal is the criminal got caught...fear of punishment prevents a vast portion of the population from committing crimes, not some b.s. religious beliefs, not some societal condemnation, not some misplaced ideology...it's fear...those who denied that fear are either dead or behind bars...that sir is absolute undeniable fact...

You guys take one example and apply it to every kid in the world.  If your kid needs to be treated like a circus animal in order to know not to pull a knife on someone, YOU have failed as a parent.
you're doing the exact same thing...you're telling everyone the way you're raising your kids...and it should work for everyone else...wrong.

i want to live on your planet...my kids wouldn't have to worry about getting beaten up on a bus for an ipod or worse...
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Offline dedalos

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Re: Kids these days
« Reply #151 on: March 03, 2011, 02:32:28 PM »
reading comprehension problem i see...if the parents didn't teach the kid respect for life...then fear of punishment worked on the playground...get the idea now? i understand this concept is beyond your comprehension but something for you to ponder...the only difference between a law abiding citizen and a criminal is the criminal got caught...fear of punishment prevents a vast portion of the population from committing crimes, not some b.s. religious beliefs, not some societal condemnation, not some misplaced ideology...it's fear...those who denied that fear are either dead or behind bars...that sir is absolute undeniable fact...

Let me get this straight.  If it was not for fear, we would all be criminals?  The only reason I am not a criminal is because I never got caught?  Caught doing what?  I was kidding earlier, but now seriously where are you from?

Quote
you're doing the exact same thing...you're telling everyone the way you're raising your kids...and it should work for everyone else...wrong.

i want to live on your planet...my kids wouldn't have to worry about getting beaten up on a bus for an ipod or worse...

Heh, nice but you wont find any sympathy here for that.  If that is a problem for your kids and you have not done anything to fix it and take them away from that environment, you have failed.  If you knew you were going to bring kids into that environment there is a list of things I can call you but I will stick with irresponsible for now.  I have worked my butt off to make sure my kids will not have to worry about getting beat up on a bus or have knives pulled on a play ground.  You can sit there call me names and tell me how to raise my kids while you are exposing your ids to those conditions?

Really, spend more time figuring out how to get your kids out of that environment.  They did not ask you to have them so since you did have them, you have the responsibility to provide the best for them.
Quote from: 2bighorn on December 15, 2010 at 03:46:18 PM
Dedalos pretty much ruined DA.

Offline gyrene81

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Re: Kids these days
« Reply #152 on: March 03, 2011, 02:52:10 PM »
Let me get this straight.  If it was not for fear, we would all be criminals?  The only reason I am not a criminal is because I never got caught?  Caught doing what?  I was kidding earlier, but now seriously where are you from?
you really should take a look at how much of a "law abiding citizen" you truly are...i'm sure you will surprise yourself...


Heh, nice but you wont find any sympathy here for that.  If that is a problem for your kids and you have not done anything to fix it and take them away from that environment, you have failed.  If you knew you were going to bring kids into that environment there is a list of things I can call you but I will stick with irresponsible for now.  I have worked my butt off to make sure my kids will not have to worry about getting beat up on a bus or have knives pulled on a play ground.  You can sit there call me names and tell me how to raise my kids while you are exposing your ids to those conditions?



Really, spend more time figuring out how to get your kids out of that environment.  They did not ask you to have them so since you did have them, you have the responsibility to provide the best for them.
i don't live in the slums, it's middle class...but that doesn't mean the other people in the area have kids that respect anything...so your solution is to take my kids from their home, where they have friends and family...where my career keeps them living in relative comfort...just because other people can't control their kids? or should i take matters into my own hands and control other peoples kids for them?

see, now i know you do not live in the real world...you live somewhere many people cannot even if they wanted to...it's out of touch with the rest of the world and now you're trying to tell the rest of us how to defeat the society around us and it's influences without having any experience with it yourself...that's like moving to a different country and trying to change their culture because it doesn't fit your ideology.


i'm sorry man but, you have no business judging other people by the way they raise their kids...or telling them how
« Last Edit: March 03, 2011, 02:56:05 PM by gyrene81 »
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Offline Reschke

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Re: Kids these days
« Reply #153 on: March 03, 2011, 02:59:50 PM »
Kid needs a spanking. Zero respect to authority / grown ups and you see the results.

+1 and so do most parents these days....its always someone elses fault.
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Offline dedalos

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Re: Kids these days
« Reply #154 on: March 03, 2011, 03:18:00 PM »
you really should take a look at how much of a "law abiding citizen" you truly are...i'm sure you will surprise yourself...
i'm sorry man but, you have no business judging other people by the way they raise their kids...or telling them how
Lol, are you kidding?  There will not be a surprise at all  :rofl


Quote
i don't live in the slums, it's middle class...but that doesn't mean the other people in the area have kids that respect anything...so your solution is to take my kids from their home, where they have friends and family...where my career keeps them living in relative comfort...just because other people can't control their kids? or should i take matters into my own hands and control other peoples kids for them?

see, now i know you do not live in the real world...you live somewhere many people cannot even if they wanted to...it's out of touch with the rest of the world and now you're trying to tell the rest of us how to defeat the society around us and it's influences without having any experience with it yourself...that's like moving to a different country and trying to change their culture because it doesn't fit your ideology.


i'm sorry man but, you have no business judging other people by the way they raise their kids...or telling them how

 :lol First of all, this is a thread about all of todays kids.  That includes mine so it kind of made it my business.  Then you put some labels on me and telling me how I should raise my kids.  But I have no business telling you how to raise yours?  No business judging people?  That is what we do all day long.  You judged me based on my post on hitting kids, my attitude towards the traffic cops, your assumptions on where and how a leave, but I can't judge you?  I leave in a middle class neighborhood too but there are no knives or fights on the bus.  Only kids running around playing.  You can say what you wish, but if my kids were in danger every single day I would have moved.  Sometimes you only have to go a few miles away so don't give me the BS about your work.   You can drive to your career. An extra 10 minutes will not kill you but it may keep your kids safe.

At the age of 41 I have seen enough to know where the stuff you describe happens.  So, BS all you want about career and friends.  I used to drive for an hour and half to mine.  Now its 20 minutes, but if needed I would do 2 or 3 hours if I knew the little ones were safe.

You seem to think that somehow I leave a privileged life and therefore I should not have an opinion about the real world?  Even if that were true, I assure you trailer parks are not the real world either.



Quote from: 2bighorn on December 15, 2010 at 03:46:18 PM
Dedalos pretty much ruined DA.

Offline gyrene81

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Re: Kids these days
« Reply #155 on: March 03, 2011, 03:42:47 PM »
so you're telling me you have never cut someone off in traffic because you were in a hurry and they weren't...never gone even 1 mile per hour over the speed limit...never blew through a yellow traffic signal on purpose...never even taken a pen from the office...never done drugs??? you're a saint...and the reason you have never broken the law, even a misdemeanor?


you honestly think the dirtbags come from lower class ghetto neighborhoods and trailer parks? try a predominantly white small town in iowa that suddenly found itself neck deep in asian gang bangers that came out of the upper class neighborhoods...happened in a new orleans suburb as well...and the trailer parks i've been familiar with had the most well behaved children i have ever come in contact with...and they weren't dirty little low iq abused kids, just victims of economic pressure whose parents were doing the best they could.

i applaud you for the way you're looking out for your children...and obviously you're not one of those parents who is irresponsible or abusive...it's too bad the rest of our society isn't like that...again we don't all have the luxury to do what you do...and i've known some very good parents (at least on the surface) that raised their children with the same values...who saw their children end up behind bars...and i've seen many kids who were raised with corporal punishment turn out to be very responsible productive young adults...in going to college and/or working.




this whole conversation started from one little example of parents who don't pay attention to what their kid does and the op happened to come into contact with that kid...some say the kid needs more spankings...others condemn the people who say that...none of us knows what that kids parents are like...could be like you or could be ghetto rats...the one thing for sure is that the kid needs some discipline regardless of how it's administered.
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Offline dedalos

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Re: Kids these days
« Reply #156 on: March 03, 2011, 04:01:04 PM »
so you're telling me you have never cut someone off in traffic because you were in a hurry and they weren't...never gone even 1 mile per hour over the speed limit...never blew through a yellow traffic signal on purpose...never even taken a pen from the office...never done drugs??? you're a saint...and the reason you have never broken the law, even a misdemeanor?


I'll admit, I am getting tired of this meaningless conversation. 

Not every one has done drugs.  I know, it may be hard for you to believe.  How come your beatings did not stop you from doing so?

As far as cutting anyone off or going over the speed limit the answer is yes.  Cutting off by accident but over the limit by choice.  Same for yellow signals.  Those my friend are traffic violations not misdemeanors.  You are not a criminal by doing the above.  If you ask me, you are back pedaling now because that is not what you meant by criminals.   Whats next?  Parking tickets?

 
Quote from: 2bighorn on December 15, 2010 at 03:46:18 PM
Dedalos pretty much ruined DA.

Offline CAP1

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Re: Kids these days
« Reply #157 on: March 03, 2011, 04:12:31 PM »
i'm somewhat surprised that this, and the other kids thread haven't been locked yet........
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Offline PJ_Godzilla

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Re: Kids these days
« Reply #158 on: March 03, 2011, 04:39:23 PM »
So, according to some of you it is because we did not get spanked.  According to others it is because we were abused.  What ever the reason is, it is definitely not that hitting kids is wrong.   :aok

No. my response was to Penguin's wild extrapolation. I made a joke. From this, he/she was somehow able to deduce that I would both mercilessly beat a child and bully a senior citizen. I wonder if he can read my bones, too? In any case, I like to let the punishment fit the crime (socratic wisdom, that) and so responded with my own extrapolation. I suppose you too can get in the extrapolation game and assume that since I shot it at la penguina, it was also aimed at you - but I'd recommend against it.
 
As for the rest of the back-and-forth b/w you and Gyrene, I see some virtue in both methods. I think that children are, and I'll use the phrase again, defined to be non compes mentes for a good reason, to wit, they are not fully capable of making good decisions. Thus, you cannot expect to be able to walk them through a line of reason as you would SOME adults (many adults you cannot as well, for other reasons). You may have to create more immediate and visible repercussions to enable a better decision-making process. This assumes that your own aspect is less limited than the child's. That said, odds are, you can accomplish this without playing the force card. However, in some cases it may be necessary to inflict some level of pain to capture their attention.

I honestly think your total prohibition is not only going to be misperceived by the child but is also a mentally lazy means of navigating the judgment process critical to parenting. That said I think every kid is different. Some don't respond to that type of correction anyway. I've seen this even in dogs, as an example. Some are sensitive to the spray bottle, others are not. There are at least two little girls who do not responds to spanking and never will (so why try? It just teaches 'em you're soft at that point), and one good little boy who barely had to be tapped and caught a clue. None need habitual correction now, since the proper tool was applied at the correct and criticial point of test.   Discerning that, though, is each parent's job.

You and Gyrene don't know each other's kids or methods in full, but I'd guess that just the fact that you're involved is a good sign. Therefore, you should both probably just quit the pointless arg, at least until you've switched families for a while.
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Offline gyrene81

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Re: Kids these days
« Reply #159 on: March 03, 2011, 05:22:34 PM »
I'll admit, I am getting tired of this meaningless conversation. 

Not every one has done drugs.  I know, it may be hard for you to believe.  How come your beatings did not stop you from doing so?

As far as cutting anyone off or going over the speed limit the answer is yes.  Cutting off by accident but over the limit by choice.  Same for yellow signals.  Those my friend are traffic violations not misdemeanors.  You are not a criminal by doing the above.  If you ask me, you are back pedaling now because that is not what you meant by criminals.   Whats next?  Parking tickets?
i'm not backpedaling anything...you sir are out of touch with reality...traffic violations, regardless of your point of view are violations of written law and though most are not subject to criminal prosecution they are subject to penalties the same as any laws...speeding and, blowing through traffic risk the health and safety of other people on the road...doing something in violation of traffic laws and cause injury or loss of life due to your actions and you can be prosecuted under criminal law...but then you wouldn't think about stuff like that as you speed around on the road you own in your utopian world, because you're by george better than the neanderthals that spank their kids...  :aok


i don't suppose you ever asked yourself why a child will attempt to touch the top of the stove even after being told "no no" numerous times...and why it only takes one instance of touching a hot pot or burner for that child to not want to touch it again...it's fear of experiencing the pain again...it's the same for every other "no no" a child is taught growing up...either fear from the experience or fear of the punishment...now read this carefully, i am not saying parents should use fear of physical harm to raise their children but they should fear the punishment for disobedience regardless of how it is administered...and please don't tell me you don't use fear to discipline your children...it may not be physical but your psychological punishments induce fear just as much as a spanking, be grateful your kids are such that they don't require more firm disciplinary actions.
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Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. - Terry Pratchett

Offline Anaxogoras

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Re: Kids these days
« Reply #160 on: March 03, 2011, 05:23:00 PM »
Ideas about correct parenting have been in flux since the beginning of civilization.  There is no such thing as the good ol' days when children were smacked or spanked for disrespect and it turned them all into upstanding citizens.  Likewise, progressive fads about how to raise children have equally failed to reform rebellious youth who damage property and cause mayhem.  That good parents can have a bad offspring was first observed at least 2500 years ago, and it's still the same today.  We do our best to instill our children with the right values, teach them to be fair and respect property, and in the end they are still unique individuals from the moment they are born.

For now my parental authority is self-justifying.  I'm the dad.  But as my son grows and he understands more, I would like him to understand my positions in terms of our family's values and his own rational self-interest.  I don't believe in authority that comes from the barrel of a gun, and I don't believe in authority that comes from the threat of physical punishment against someone who is smaller and weaker than I am.
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Offline gyrene81

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Re: Kids these days
« Reply #161 on: March 03, 2011, 05:26:43 PM »
Ideas about correct parenting have been in flux since the beginning of civilization.  There is no such thing as the good ol' days when children were smacked or spanked for disrespect and it turned them all into upstanding citizens.  Likewise, progressive fads about how to raise children have equally failed to reform rebellious youth who damage property and cause mayhem.  That good parents can have a bad offspring was first observed at least 2500 years ago, and it's still the same today.  We do our best to instill our children with the right values, teach them to be fair and respect property, and in the end they are still unique individuals from the moment they are born.

For now my parental authority is self-justifying.  I'm the dad.  But as my son grows and he understands more, I would like him to understand my positions in terms of our family's values and his own rational self-interest.  I don't believe in authority that comes from the barrel of a gun, and I don't believe in authority that comes from the threat of physical punishment against someone who is smaller and weaker than I am.
:aok agree 110%
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Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. - Terry Pratchett

Offline Belial

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Re: Kids these days
« Reply #162 on: March 03, 2011, 07:06:54 PM »
What does he mean.."you people"?   :rofl

Offline M0nkey_Man

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Re: Kids these days
« Reply #163 on: March 03, 2011, 10:28:09 PM »
lol too much reading
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Offline 2bighorn

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Re: Kids these days
« Reply #164 on: March 03, 2011, 10:48:44 PM »
i'm somewhat surprised that this, and the other kids thread haven't been locked yet........


Isn't life beautiful? So many surprises everywhere? Would you be any less surprised if thread is locked after you spammed it with your AvA adds?  :devil

It's decent discussion by O'Club standards...