Is this what Hitech wants?

[AWwrgwy]

Yes cant deny it can lead to some great fights
Problem is. More times then not,just about as soon as any kind of real defense is upped or it becomes obvious the quick capture isn't going to happen. The horde again moves to where people aren't.

Herein lies the crux of the problem. They just give up as soon as a good fight develops.

I thought the point of having capturable bases was to encourage fighting. As soon as many of these hoards gets any opposition they go to the other side of the map.

I suppose it is "the path of least resistance" but if you don't want any resistance you might as well be capturing fields off line.

Jug, I'd love to try picking people out of a horde like this, but like I said earlier, they are good at what they do.

They come in NOE and pop at the dar ring. They come strait to the field and kill everything, then they kill any uppers left, then they kill the town. From dar to capture takes about 5-6 minuets. If you up from the next field over you might get there in time to see the last couple land.

Then, they don't up there because the base is flat, so they up someplace else, not to take a base any where near the one they just took, because people are alert in that area.

So you land and up again trying to guess the next area of attack, or you can sit in the tower to try and react quicker on the next dar flash.

Seeing as ratting out a CV that is hidden and ruining someones fun is not liked by HTC, and getting mauled by horde after and having the defender fun ruin isn't bad just keeps me mystified as to "how to play this game"

Last time I was involved in a defense where this happened we took the base back in five minutes.

All the hangers were down. They had no friendly spawn in. We got there too late.

I deacked the town in a 262 with the others and we had a gv spawn in.

Basically they captured with a hoard and landed rather than fight.
 

wrongway

[Citabria]

i hate to divulge tips from a decade of playing this damn game but here goes.

pick your fights. if theres a cloud of red and your not in an uber ride with smash and or alt dont turn and burn on the deck by the capped field unless you dont mind getting wasted repeatedly. thats what the perk rides are for and its the most enjoyable place to use a 262 is ina cloud of red without getting a stray golden bb while pulling out 10+ scalps.

the horde wants victims.

period.

they want the easiest kills possible and if no one ups to defend they will roll bases till they get bored or the base spacing changes to more than 25 miles.

if a decent defense is evident you can join the defense and fight off the horde but numbers ussually wins if your not in a 262. if your not enjoying the challenge of being outnumbered move to a quiet part of the map and start a new fight.

in summary I have just told you to not keep doing somthing if your not having fun and do not expect a different result more than 1 time out of 10 when defending vs a horde.

you may delay them but unless your side responds with similar numbers you will ussually be routed and your base captured.

its called a tactical withdrawl or a retreat. use it.

[1Boner]

Herein lies the crux of the problem. They just give up as soon as a good fight develops.
 As soon as many of these hoards gets any opposition they go to the other side of the map.

wrongway

This sounds EXACTLY how alot of pilots fly their "fighters".

All the above statement would need to do is subsitute the word "hordes" for "fighters".

[MrRiplEy[H]]

i hate to divulge tips from a decade of playing this damn game but here goes.

pick your fights. if theres a cloud of red and your not in an uber ride with smash and or alt dont turn and burn on the deck by the capped field unless you dont mind getting wasted repeatedly. thats what the perk rides are for and its the most enjoyable place to use a 262 is ina cloud of red without getting a stray golden bb while pulling out 10+ scalps.

the horde wants victims.

period.

they want the easiest kills possible and if no one ups to defend they will roll bases till they get bored or the base spacing changes to more than 25 miles.

if a decent defense is evident you can join the defense and fight off the horde but numbers ussually wins if your not in a 262. if your not enjoying the challenge of being outnumbered move to a quiet part of the map and start a new fight.

in summary I have just told you to not keep doing somthing if your not having fun and do not expect a different result more than 1 time out of 10 when defending vs a horde.

you may delay them but unless your side responds with similar numbers you will ussually be routed and your base captured.

its called a tactical withdrawl or a retreat. use it.

Most players lack a few thousand perks some have to risk on a 262 mission into a horde. I for one lost all my perks from several years due to a name change which I didn't know would cause such an event. I personally am not afraid to use the perks I have now collected again but I know the majority of players lack the perk buffers to casually take one.

So either it's the dissatisfaction of surrendering under the horde or trying to fight desperately - both cases is a loss for the victim of the horde. If I have to give up to a horde it usually means the game just stoped being fun for me and I log off for a week. If it happens often enough it may mean I no longer see paying the monthly payment feasible. And that's not good for HTC. If hordeing produces player logoffs and/or quits, the balance gets shifted even worse gradually with the problem feeding itself.

I remember back in 2002 when euro-primetime login would in most cases produce a situation where your country was being horded to death with a couple remaining fields vulched non-stop. Whenever you took up you stood 10:1 odds - if you got up at all that is. That's by far not the only reason I quit subscribing back then but it was certainly a factor why I stayed away for years.

[Urchin]

Thing is, for every long time player who quits because they are still trying to play an air combat sim, someone who plays the game for what it has become comes along and replaces him. HT doesn't care WHO is playing the game, as long as someone is.

I just think the game could really be so much more if they embraced the "war simulation" mentality that the AH population has had now for many years and turned the MA into more of a combined arms simulator. They way it is now I don't think anyone is truly happy - the folks that want to play an air combat sim are stuck with a population that wants to play a 'war simulation' and the folks who want the 'war simulation' are stuck with a game that has a very limited toolset for what they want.

[The Fugitive]

Well it seems that fight are not something people look for or want in the main arenas. So to this end maybe we should ALL switch to bishops. This way we can guaranty that we won't accidentally fight anyone, we could join the hordes already in progress and learn the fine art of steamrolling a base. With the larger number I'm sure we could reset the maps faster solving two problems at once. First getting perk points to people easily that haven't really earned them so they they too can fly 262s, and second The boredom issue of the maps not switching out fast enough for some.  

[pervert]

Thing is, for every long time player who quits because they are still trying to play an air combat sim, someone who plays the game for what it has become comes along and replaces him. HT doesn't care WHO is playing the game, as long as someone is.

I just think the game could really be so much more if they embraced the "war simulation" mentality that the AH population has had now for many years and turned the MA into more of a combined arms simulator. They way it is now I don't think anyone is truly happy - the folks that want to play an air combat sim are stuck with a population that wants to play a 'war simulation' and the folks who want the 'war simulation' are stuck with a game that has a very limited toolset for what they want.

Bit harsh its the guys living

[MrRiplEy[H]]

Thing is, for every long time player who quits because they are still trying to play an air combat sim, someone who plays the game for what it has become comes along and replaces him. HT doesn't care WHO is playing the game, as long as someone is.

I beg to differ. Simulated air combat is a niche market as it is, every customer counts for HTC. MA playerbase is in 3 thousand range, the MMOG move in 3 hundred  thousands to 3 million player range. So no, it really is not the same who quits.

[AWwrgwy]

Well it seems that fight are not something people look for or want in the main arenas. So to this end maybe we should ALL switch to bishops. This way we can guaranty that we won't accidentally fight anyone, we could join the hordes already in progress and learn the fine art of steamrolling a base. With the larger number I'm sure we could reset the maps faster solving two problems at once. First getting perk points to people easily that haven't really earned them so they they too can fly 262s, and second The boredom issue of the maps not switching out fast enough for some.  

But, ENY will be too high and we'll all have to fly "crappy" planes.

 


wrongway

[DREDIOCK]

Creates another problem(s).  

What about a field that is being defended, but someone decides to up a mission from there.  If you have field limits, you have eliminated anyone from defending the field.  That mission may sit in the tower 5 to 10 minutes before launching, so now, in theory at least, you could have a field that is totally defenseless while everyone is in the tower waiting for the mission to start.

I could really see this as a problem for GV's.  Players are attempting to spawn out of a field to an opposing or even friendly field, but is unable to do so because a mission is in the tower waiting to launch.

Now I know you big time bad fly only expert cartoon pilots who think GVing is beneath you really don't care, but there is a large contingent of players that enjoy the GVing side of the game, and I would hate to see my fun thwarted because a few get upset because they preceive there is some big problem with large groups of players attacking a field in a way they don't like.

Same old complaint, different thread.

MY OPINION
Fred

I hear what your saying. but odds are if a mission is about to up from a base. Its going to get canceled because of the attack. As its going to be difficult to up a mission when the feilds under attack.No base would be defenseless in that event anyway because of people waiting for a mission to start because the limits would only apply to planes already airborn. Not to the amount of people in the tower.

If your saying it leaves that base exposed because all potential available AC from that base that might otherwise be defending it are already air born Well, Just as IRL. Thats the chance you take. This in itself adds yet another element to the game. Though I think very quickly people would start moving missions away from the front lone bases.

As for the GVs. They should be exempted from any limits simply because there is rarely that many GVs comming in to where the GVs are the major problem.
I dont look down on GVers. I used to love GVing on the Pizza map. And would enjoy it occasionally on others.
 In fact if I could get my stick working right when GVing I'd probably spend more time in them. The only thing I dont like about GVing is the spawn camping. I am of the opinion that GVing should be a flowing battle about movement, with ambushes well away from the spawn area just as they would be IRL. Not sitting there in one spot and playing whack a mole.
If it were up to me. In addition to the random area spawns we have now we would also have multiple sub spawn points within each spawn point.
Example: you click spawn point direction "A" to choose to which base your going to spawn to. Then a sub menu pops up giving you the choice of 3-4 other spawn points each well away from each other and with its own random spawn area just as our singular spawns have now.
This would make GVing far more cerebral and entertaining then just sitting there like going "Doh De Doh! Got me anuddur one, Guhuh huh"

Camping while still possible would be more difficult to shut down inbounds as you would have to be mindful that you could end up getting flanked by forces comming in from another area.
While I know that quite a few get enjoyment of this
The ability to camp an entire spawn is the single most detrimental aspect of the GV game that holds it back from being everything it could and should be to become a major contributor to game play

Think about it. When your defending a feild even from the air what goes on. "Ok we have the south spawn covered. Anyone know if anythings comming in from the east spawn?" Makes it a bit more interesting when you have to worry about more then 1 doesnt it?  Also makes it more interesting when your able to spawn in from more then one location. Now imagine that expanded. Suddenly knowing your terrain becomes more important as you can no longer just sit on one spot and wait for the one idiot that insists on offering his/her  head up for slaughter before then can even look around to see where enemies are.

You have to consider terrain in setting up strong defensive positions, probable avenues of approach, Choke and ambush points. Team play is going to become more important as you might have to use the kind of strategy and tactics that were really used just like the airborn counter parts. Pretty soon your going to want more detailed maps of the terrain so you can plan and set these things up on both attack and defense. then pretty soon it becomes more like like... OH  MEIN GOTT!! A Real ground war! Heavens to Betsy Whatever would we do if that happens!

LOL

[DREDIOCK]

Or, consider the CV. As it sits now, 1 CV is as good as a fleet. I'd like to see an experimental arena where CV's and fields have a finite number of aircraft. Clearly, this would impede fights-on-demand but it would add realism. Perhaps the way to do this would be to limit the number of uppers from any field on a first-come, first-served basis. A loss of one upper would open the queue to the next upper, possibly with some "transfer" time delay. In this way, the local concertrations would be far more realistic. Uppers from distant bases would be under range pressure. Hording would require command and coordination.

Even before this, though, I'd like to see CV limits. That way, 4 CV's would be a massive force but 1 would be approx. 30-odd fighters - with similar-sized contingents of dive-bombers and torp bombers.   

Pretty much exactly what I was talking about.

As for the CVs. Maybe have differing types of CVs. Just as we have now. some CVs have the cruiser or multiple cruiser escorts and some dont
Have some that are CVs with only 1 carrier. And some that are carrier groups/invasion task forces with several.
This would make the CV type guys happy as one divebombing lancaster couldnt end the "decent fight" all in one dive.

[The Fugitive]

<snip>

You have to consider terrain in setting up strong defensive positions, probable avenues of approach, Choke and ambush points. Team play is going to become more important as you might have to use the kind of strategy and tactics that were really used just like the airborn counter parts. Pretty soon your going to want more detailed maps of the terrain so you can plan and set these things up on both attack and defense. then pretty soon it becomes more like like... OH  MEIN GOTT!! A Real ground war! Heavens to Betsy Whatever would we do if that happens!

LOL

The day this happens is the day I will start to learn all about ground vehicles ! 

[DREDIOCK]

any time I read a thread like this I think back to the days when the arenas were capped at 120.  No more than 40 players per side max.  To me those were the best times, the best fights.  You get an arena with 350+ people in it and gameplay just goes to hell. 

Actually I dont think the arena size is the problem. I think its always been the lack of a forced balanced side system. I like the idea of a max per side and think its a time that never should have left. As even with ENY you can still end up with 100 team "A", 100 team "B", and 60 Team "C"

I said it then and I still say it. "A horde is a horde is a horde." No matter if its 20 P51's or 20 205s. If its consistantly4 on 1 and your the 1. The fun factor drops off very quickly. Even faster if your new or not among the uber

Side limits IMO would add credibility to the split arenas too. If your side has too many numbers in one arena and your chesspeice loyal. Then yea. You can go to another arena.

[DREDIOCK]

Do you mean horizontaly or vertically??

I find that more people avoid fighting using altitude as a hiding place.

There is that yea. Thats at least part of a legitimate tactic. And more often then not easily defended against and often use their alt to your own advantage. I've always been a big proponent of using an opponents strengths against him. And frustrating him into fighting my fight. You can win many a fight that way.
 But I find more people at co alt like to make one pass. Then run to their nearest friendly ack. That is of course when you can actually find a fight when they are not going to attack a base en masse where there arent any defenders around.

I spent over an hour last night flying from one base to another chasing darbars that disappeared before I got there. two of the times by the time I did actualy find someone to shoot at I ran out of gas.

[Dadsguns]

Actually I dont think the arena size is the problem. I think its always been the lack of a forced balanced side system. I like the idea of a max per side and think its a time that never should have left. As even with ENY you can still end up with 100 team "A", 100 team "B", and 60 Team "C"

I said it then and I still say it. "A horde is a horde is a horde." No matter if its 20 P51's or 20 205s. If its consistantly4 on 1 and your the 1. The fun factor drops off very quickly. Even faster if your new or not among the uber

Side limits IMO would add credibility to the split arenas too. If your side has too many numbers in one arena and your chesspeice loyal. Then yea. You can go to another arena.