Is this what Hitech wants?

[68ZooM]

Urchin, I totaly agree and I too would like to know what people find fun in that situation.

it may be fun for one side( i dont see how) but its getting frustrating for the other, and it just seems to be just growing

[Rolex]

I tried reading through this thread, but my head almost exploded after 3 pages. I'll just say this: 1 horde + 1 horde = 1 furball.

[68ZooM]

I tried reading through this thread, but my head almost exploded after 3 pages. I'll just say this: 1 horde + 1 horde = 1 furball.

that's great if both hordes wants to stay and fight, it don't work that way anymore

[Urchin]

The difference is we're not talking about having more players on the field, we're talking about flooding one area to overwhelm the local defenders. Football teams do this all the time, both on offense and defense. Or are you saying that blitzing the quarterback is unsportsmanlike and makes for boring games?

I've got a bad feeling about this lol, I think we are having 2 conversations now...

Anyway, your response is appreciated, but I think it is somewhat misleading. A blitz can be countered, by good blocking or if the QB and recievers both see it, etc.

What happens in the MA is basically you have two football games going on at the same time, on the same field... only both teams are playing offense. Nobody plays 'defense' because (to use your analogy) as soon as their 'blitz' gets stopped they pack up and move to a different field.

[Dadsguns]

The difference is we're not talking about having more players on the field, we're talking about flooding one area to overwhelm the local defenders. Football teams do this all the time, both on offense and defense. Or are you saying that blitzing the quarterback is unsportsmanlike and makes for boring games?

Um YOU might not be, but the rest of us are. We are talking about is YOU having 40 on the field and we having 10.  OVERALL, not what you bring to a field in a mission, what you have on your favorite chess piece.

[moot]

bait?

bye bye

[Crash Orange]

So what happens when there are no defenders? Is the game still fun for you?

If that ever happens, I'll let you know. No sign of it so far.

Um YOU might not be, but the rest of us are. We are talking about is YOU having 40 on the field and we having 10.  OVERALL, not what you bring to a field in a mission, what you have on your favorite chess piece.

No, we're not. The OP wasn't about overall numbers, it was about horde attacks at one field, and most of the thread has been on that point. You're the one who started confusing those separate issues.

I explained above, hordes have NOTHING to do with overall numbers. Just a few nights ago in LWO there was a big nit horde attacking 128 even though nits had at least 20 fewer players on than rooks or bish. It was possible because no rooks or nits were fighting each other. Which country is getting ganged at any given time varies even from hour to hour but usually there's at least one front with very little activity, meaning both those teams are ganging up on the 3rd. Stricter ENY won't do a thing to change that, in fact it might make it worse.

[CptTrips]

Does it matter?  

Does it matter? 

Well, it does to me.  I can’t speak for others.

I don’t like your football analogy.  It’s too complicated.  Are we still talking cripples?  Or retards? Or just out-numbered.  Or out-numbered and retarded?  Sigh…ok, I’ll give it a try. 

If it’s truly 11 guys vs. 5 and they don’t have access to another 6 guys, then no, that’s not what I want.  I’ll usually switch over to help the low side (as I responded to HT).

If it’s really 11 vs. 11 but 6 of the other guys are just tools and won’t cooperate with their team; if they are stopping to text on their cell phones in the middle of a play; picking their nose and day dreaming; moving off to the sideline and demanding someone come play them 1 vs. 1 football- man to man; if they can’t cooperate and coordinate their efforts like a proper team so that only 5 are really even effective……then yeah.  I’ll crush them like insects and I enjoy every minute of it.  I’ll break them like a freakin stick.  They are stupid, and weak, and are not using the resources available to them and that should be punished mercilessly in the harsh crucible of competition. 

Let me try an analogy on you.  I promise it won’t be so complicated.

I’m playing someone chess in a tournament setting.  We start out with equal pieces and equal position (remember it matters to me if teams are reasonably even, and usually most maps are have reasonably equal starting positions…except for Mindanao). 

However, as the game progresses the idiot across from me is just not paying attention, making stupid moves.  Boom.  Loses a rook.  Boom.  Loses a knight.  Boom.  Loses his queen.  At this point I’ve achieved a powerful advantage in “material”.  What do I do now?

Do I offer to take some of my pieces off the board to let him have more fun?
Do I promise not to use all my pieces until he has captured some of mine and evened up?
Do I let him put some of his pieces back on so he won’t feeeeeeeel bad?

Or do I continue to leverage the material advantage I have established to relentlessly, and mercilessly crush his remaining positions until checkmate, or until he lays down his king in abject submission to the brutal weight of inevitability?

Well, if I could play chess worth a crap (which I can’t), I think you know which I would do.  Is that unreasonable?

Wab






   

[CptTrips]

I tried reading through this thread, but my head almost exploded after 3 pages. I'll just say this: 1 horde + 1 horde = 1 furball.

Appearently, its actually, physically IMPOSSIBLE to launch enough planes to defend against a horde attack.  Its simply not supported in the software.

Maybe in AH III. 

,
Wab

[Dadsguns]

No, we're not. The OP wasn't about overall numbers, it was about horde attacks at one field, and most of the thread has been on that point. You're the one who started confusing those separate issues.

I explained above, hordes have NOTHING to do with overall numbers. Just a few nights ago in LWO there was a big nit horde attacking 128 even though nits had at least 20 fewer players on than rooks or bish. It was possible because no rooks or nits were fighting each other. Which country is getting ganged at any given time varies even from hour to hour but usually there's at least one front with very little activity, meaning both those teams are ganging up on the 3rd. Stricter ENY won't do a thing to change that, in fact it might make it worse.

But it is about overall numbers, it is the root and basis of this problem.

How is stricter eny going to make it worse?  and on who?

I agree local hordes will happen, but when these local hordes also include inadvertent "extras" like another 40 players like in that example regardless if it was intentional or not, how is that fair for the players that must go up against that?

Sounds like you want your "fair" to include these "extras" regardless of what side is having their turn in the pickle jar.  
So when as you say the other two sides are engaged its OK to have your "extras" AND "horde" a single side but they cant?

Your not only using these extra 40 or so to protect your precious land grabbing prizes, but also to steam roll new bases, if all sides were closer to being equal you would not be the primary target due to having the larger force to contend with, its just that simple.  

If one attacks you full force, it would expose their undefended bases as well for the third side to attack, so it would in essence spread this fight out, but that's not what you want is it?, you want everyone to have to deal with the way YOU play the game not how everyone is forced to play the game with that much of an advantage.
 
Or is that not fair enough for you?  Its what everyone else has to contend with now

[moot]

Wabbit kick me in the nuts for saying so, but I reckon that's a bad analogy because it's set up as a 1:1.  
There is just one guy deciding "the opposition"'s behavior. Unlike in AH arenas.  It's not always, that the team's so single-minded. Whether single-mindedly shreckless or wanting to play another game (e.g. furballing his chess pieces, IOW AH isn't a game with only one way to play it like chess is), or single-mindedly making the all wrong moves while meaning to actually compete on the actual chess game.  

Appearently, its actually, physically IMPOSSIBLE to launch enough planes to defend against a horde attack.  Its simply not supported in the software.

Maybe in AH III. 

,
Wab

That's not the point...

[Urchin]

I’m playing someone chess in a tournament setting.  We start out with equal pieces and equal position (remember it matters to me if teams are reasonably even, and usually most maps are have reasonably equal starting positions…except for Mindanao). 

However, as the game progresses the idiot across from me is just not paying attention, making stupid moves.  Boom.  Loses a rook.  Boom.  Loses a knight.  Boom.  Loses his queen.  At this point I’ve achieved a powerful advantage in “material”.  What do I do now?

Do I offer to take some of my pieces off the board to let him have more fun?
Do I promise not to use all my pieces until he has captured some of mine and evened up?
Do I let him put some of his pieces back on so he won’t feeeeeeeel bad?

Or do I continue to leverage the material advantage I have established to relentlessly, and mercilessly crush his remaining positions until checkmate, or until he lays down his king in abject submission to the brutal weight of inevitability?

Well, if I could play chess worth a crap (which I can’t), I think you know which I would do.  Is that unreasonable?

Wab

Actually that is a pretty good analogy. It might even illustrate the difference between our opinion. Let me ask you to clarify your position though - let's just for sake of argument say you COULD play chess worth a crap, in fact you are an international grandmaster! Would you have fun playing in a tournament for those  ranked under 800? I'm guessing probably not, because of how you answered the football analogy, but it is a different way of saying the same thing.

In fact, I think the difference between you and I may be as simple as your analogy - you seem to think of this game as a competition where the 'opposition' deserves to be crushed, and hopefully in a manner that would discourage them from ever having the temerity to challenge you again - I think of it as a game. Like chess, except not in a tournament setting. Like a game in that it is important that both sides have fun.

Let me ask you a different question, related to your chess analogy. Lets say you aren't playing in a tournament, just a friendly series of games against someone that you are clearly better than. Do you ever get to the point where you'd give up pieces (play a piece or two down) just so the other player might have more fun, and to make the game more challenging? Or would you just have more fun winning crushing victory after victory - and perhaps telling your opponent to 'quit crying' if he suggested you play a knight down next game?

Please forgive any spelling or formatting errors... I'm TDY on an old laptop and it goes haywire for some reason when I qoute longish posts.

[Urchin]

If that ever happens, I'll let you know. No sign of it so far.

You can't hazard a guess? What do you THINK? Do you think it would be fun for you and your 30 closest friends to just take bases completely unopposed for a month?

[PFactorDave]

How is stricter eny going to make it worse?  and on who?

While I support a fresh look at ENY, I don't think it will have any effect on the local hoards rolling bases.  Dads, I'm sure you remember the old RT 190A8 missions that Falcon23 would put together when ENY got high.  Base rolling can be done just as easily in high ENY aircraft.

I think I would rather the dar range be extended farther and if one side outnumbers another in a given sector (or maybe zone) by X amount (to be determined) the dar would go all the way to the ground to eliminate the NOE when there is a large local imbalance.

For me, the answer is making changes that give the defenders a bit more warning (time to defend).  

[PFactorDave]

How is stricter eny going to make it worse?  and on who?

While I support a fresh look at ENY, I don't think it will have any effect on the local hoards rolling bases.  Dads, I'm sure you remember the old RT 190A8 missions that Falcon23 would put together when ENY got high.  Base rolling can be done just as easily in high ENY aircraft.

I think I would rather the dar range be extended farther and if one side outnumbers another in a given sector (or maybe zone) by X amount (to be determined) the dar would go all the way to the ground to eliminate the NOE when there is a large local imbalance.

For me, the answer is making changes that give the defenders a bit more warning (time to defend).