Author Topic: Mac OX XV !!!  (Read 2243 times)

Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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Re: Mac OX XV !!!
« Reply #15 on: March 02, 2011, 05:51:09 PM »
Apple is great for innovation (particularly for iPods and such), but using them for a home computer is silly. Maybe they are great and easy to use, but do they work with most of the software out there?

Most software is really craptastic. I've found many Apple programs very intuitive, easy to use and stable. Take omnigraffle, keynote etc. or the iLife package that comes by default with the hardware.. super easy to use and produce results that in f.e. omnigraffles case cannot be matched by any software I know of on PC side, even at triple the price.

We had our client do additions to some presentations we had using MS tools - they pointed out like a sore thumb lol.
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Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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Re: Mac OX XV !!!
« Reply #16 on: March 02, 2011, 05:59:28 PM »
apple are greating at saying they innovate. They don't really. What they are great at is marketing. I could take all of the cool features from OS X and show you those in OS's used in the 90's for example.

I seriously doubt that. Where was the automatic sync and integration with mobile devices in 90's? Where's the near automatic setup of backups built in the OS? Where's the online personal calender, webhost, image sharing and mobile device sync? Where's the 'track my hardware after it gets stolen' on 90's? Where's the built in integration with Google maps and services? Tens of thousands of free and paid apps? With apple things are as close to plug and play as you can get where on PC you're in for manual labour to achieve the simpliest of things just to find out its bugging out on you. People do not give credit to Apple how it set trends and created knowns out of things that were deemed impossible or hype by the mainstream PC people. People laughed about tabs before iPad. Now everyone plays catch-up.

The Apple motto 'it just works' is really where it boils down to. For people who don't want to spend time using the operating system as opposed to doing something productive, there's no better option at the moment than Mac.
Definiteness of purpose is the starting point of all achievement. –W. Clement Stone

Offline Motherland

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Re: Mac OX XV !!!
« Reply #17 on: March 02, 2011, 06:00:29 PM »
Oh lord, Keynote. I can't think of a less enjoyable program that I've used.
Even on our school's Macs we have MS Office installed, I can only think that a masochist would use Apple's software.

Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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Re: Mac OX XV !!!
« Reply #18 on: March 02, 2011, 06:06:20 PM »
Oh lord, Keynote. I can't think of a less enjoyable program that I've used.
Even on our school's Macs we have MS Office installed, I can only think that a masochist would use Apple's software.

Lol! I can't imagine a worse place to gain your 'experience' from than a shared school machine. So no, that does not count as usage. I know from experience that random use will only frustrate you with the difference on how things work. You're used to the clunky PC thinking and find OSX difficult when in reality it's easyer but _different_. And Keynote happens to be superior in every imaginable way to MS Office. You can produce visual result that's unparallel and achieve it with almost no experience.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2011, 06:10:25 PM by MrRiplEy[H] »
Definiteness of purpose is the starting point of all achievement. –W. Clement Stone

Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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Re: Mac OX XV !!!
« Reply #19 on: March 02, 2011, 06:15:16 PM »
One simple example from real life:

I'm in a beach bar in Greece. I have my macbook at the bar and I'm listening to internet radio. The bar owner asks if I could put the music to play in the bar stereo. Happens that the stereo has bluetooth connectivity.

No probs, a minute later we have music playing even though I had never set up bluetooth audio before.

Then the owner brings his Vista laptop and asks me to do the same to his Vista. I'm thinking no prob. 4 hours labor later in the +35c heat I give up. Unbeknownst to me MS has intentionally crippled the bluetooth stack and deprived bluetooth audio connectivity. After I find that out, surely there are alternatives, right? Replacing it with a free third party stack proved to be too much work for that day, paid options were no option and free ones required extensive conffing.
Definiteness of purpose is the starting point of all achievement. –W. Clement Stone

Offline gyrene81

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Re: Mac OX XV !!!
« Reply #20 on: March 02, 2011, 06:18:57 PM »
I seriously doubt that. Where was the automatic sync and integration with mobile devices in 90's?
palm hotsync (?)

Where's the near automatic setup of backups built in the OS?
windblows 95 was first...didn't work real well but it was there.


Where's the online personal calender, webhost, image sharing and mobile device sync?
wasn't necessary...there wasn't any "online" except for the bbs systems...apple wasn't first for any of those, they just took longer to find a better way.


Where's the 'track my hardware after it gets stolen' on 90's?
again, wasn't necessary...there was no internet to help with low jacking technologies

Where's the built in integration with Google maps and services?
didn't exist for anyone including apple in the 90s


The Apple motto 'it just works' is really where it boils down to. For people who don't want to spend time using the operating system as opposed to doing something productive, there's no better option at the moment than Mac.
well, when you have an apple engineer tell you "sounds like it's broken" and "if replacing the parts didn't fix it, you need to get a new one"...is an indication that "it just works", i'll eat my dirty socks...
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Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. - Terry Pratchett

Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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Re: Mac OX XV !!!
« Reply #21 on: March 02, 2011, 06:25:00 PM »
palm hotsync (?)

Lol and it just worked on it's own when you plugged the device in? You didn't first have to install software, define ports, make sure you had software installed BEFORE plugging it in first etc? I don't think sooo!

Quote
windblows 95 was first...didn't work real well but it was there.

LOL! Built in backup that works with a click after you connect a backup media to your LAN with no software installation or configuration? I don't think soo! :)

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wasn't necessary...there wasn't any "online" except for the bbs systems...apple wasn't first for any of those, they just took longer to find a better way.

You mean still isn't necessary since no PC comes with such an option, you have to laborously subscribe to a dozen different service providers to achieve half of it and even then you don't get the visual result Apple does in shared photolibraries, movies etc.

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again, wasn't necessary...there was no internet to help with low jacking technologies
didn't exist for anyone including apple in the 90s

You mean still doesn't exist in any out-of-the box PC/winmo installation.

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well, when you have an apple engineer tell you "sounds like it's broken" and "if replacing the parts didn't fix it, you need to get a new one"...is an indication that "it just works", i'll eat my dirty socks...

I treat my PC hardware the same. If it fails, it's trash and fresh box comes to replace it. But I thought we were talking about sofware now.
Definiteness of purpose is the starting point of all achievement. –W. Clement Stone

Offline Tac

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Re: Mac OX XV !!!
« Reply #22 on: March 02, 2011, 08:42:46 PM »
Ripley... Apple works only with apple approved/backed stuff... which means companies that pay tithe to Apple. Win & Linux OS's like Ubuntu work with freaking nearly everything.

Sure, Apple software seems more stable..but then again, its working only with other apple software and primarily with apple hardware. The fact that Win OS is ALMOST if not more stable than any apple OS while accepting almost every known piece of hardware out there speaks volumes.

I'm not a fan of MS and neither am I a fan of Apple. But I have to give kudos where they are due. I have a hell of a time setting up the insanely expensive gadgets my father has to buy for his imac... which I always remind him would be costing 1/3rd less money to do the exact same thing if he just had purchased a PC. Not to mention I can upgrade my PC anytime I want..his mac is stuck on what it is and any upgrade he needs = a whole new machine. Ca-ching! apple.

There's also the concept of flexibility. The ability to function with a myriad of devices which you can jury rig or innovate. Apple hardware and software simply do not have this. Why? Because Apple doesnt want to allow it.. it would mean money doesn't go to them. All their claim of wanting to keep the 'purity' and 'functionality' of their products is steaming bull turds. MS does it, Linux systems does it.. Apple just wont do it because of $$$$.


The only reason Apple is still in the market is because of their non-computer products. I wont deny the Ipod and Iphone are great and innovative products.. but they aren't good products. The mobile market is perhaps well suited to apple's business model of built-for-a-few-purposes and locked-in capability. Everything else is just overly expensive crap imo.

Offline gyrene81

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Re: Mac OX XV !!!
« Reply #23 on: March 02, 2011, 10:46:37 PM »
lol...ripley, if i knew what you know about computers...i'd lose my job. nice try though...you not so amazingly forgot to note that none of that stuff was even possible for mac in the 90s, even if you wanted to pay for it.

 :rofl  sometimes you crack me up  :rofl
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Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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Re: Mac OX XV !!!
« Reply #24 on: March 03, 2011, 12:21:51 AM »
Ripley... Apple works only with apple approved/backed stuff... which means companies that pay tithe to Apple. Win & Linux OS's like Ubuntu work with freaking nearly everything.

Not true at all, Vista and Win7 still don't work with many legacy printers etc. and linux hardware support is very marginal in the end. With linux the situation is backwards, legacy devices usually work and new stuff doesn't.

Quote
Sure, Apple software seems more stable..but then again, its working only with other apple software and primarily with apple hardware. The fact that Win OS is ALMOST if not more stable than any apple OS while accepting almost every known piece of hardware out there speaks volumes.

It's not only about how stable things are, it's about ease of use.

Quote
I'm not a fan of MS and neither am I a fan of Apple. But I have to give kudos where they are due. I have a hell of a time setting up the insanely expensive gadgets my father has to buy for his imac... which I always remind him would be costing 1/3rd less money to do the exact same thing if he just had purchased a PC. Not to mention I can upgrade my PC anytime I want..his mac is stuck on what it is and any upgrade he needs = a whole new machine. Ca-ching! apple.

He could get a powermac and have a case to upgrade to. iMac is like a laptop, it's inherently not upgradeable and people who buy it usually buy it for partly esthetic reasons. One should also note that part of the 'it just works' ideology boils down exactly to limited choice of hardware. People are willing to pay premium to have a product that they can plug in and expect to work - most Mac users would consider tweaking or opening the case as the last thing they'd ever want to do I'm sure.

I used to tweak windows, overclock, build watercooled rigs etc. Oddly enough my super-duper windows rig is getting 5% of the use lately and Mac 95%. I don't have the TIME anymore. The win7 box takes 20+ seconds even to wake up from sleep mode, the mac is open in 1.

Quote
There's also the concept of flexibility. The ability to function with a myriad of devices which you can jury rig or innovate. Apple hardware and software simply do not have this. Why? Because Apple doesnt want to allow it.. it would mean money doesn't go to them. All their claim of wanting to keep the 'purity' and 'functionality' of their products is steaming bull turds. MS does it, Linux systems does it.. Apple just wont do it because of $$$$.

The only hardware problem I've run into was when I upgraded to iPhone 4 and found out it doesn't accept the same 20 dollar car tobacco-lighter charger I used for the iPhone 3.

Quote
The only reason Apple is still in the market is because of their non-computer products. I wont deny the Ipod and Iphone are great and innovative products.. but they aren't good products. The mobile market is perhaps well suited to apple's business model of built-for-a-few-purposes and locked-in capability. Everything else is just overly expensive crap imo.

Hmm Apple has for long dominated photographs, newspapers, musicians desktops etc. And every client that sees I have a mac almost without exception comment 'I wish my company would let me have one too'. In fact some of our clients have moved to Mac already.

Surely most profits come from iTunes and devices around it, the computing side is far from meaningless though.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2011, 12:35:47 AM by MrRiplEy[H] »
Definiteness of purpose is the starting point of all achievement. –W. Clement Stone

Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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Re: Mac OX XV !!!
« Reply #25 on: March 03, 2011, 12:25:44 AM »
lol...ripley, if i knew what you know about computers...i'd lose my job. nice try though...you not so amazingly forgot to note that none of that stuff was even possible for mac in the 90s, even if you wanted to pay for it.

 :rofl  sometimes you crack me up  :rofl

And if I had your quick ability to judge people without even trying to understand what the discussion was about I'd surely lose mine! If you wipe the hate induced spitter and foam from your monitor you'll notice that I was responding to a claim that stated all of this was available already on 90's and was not Apples innovation. Gyrene I'm sure you have a long experience but in many ways I think you're getting old and are stuck to old technology and old ideas. Computing tends to move forward so fast that unless you constantly learn something new you're outdated.
Definiteness of purpose is the starting point of all achievement. –W. Clement Stone

Offline Kazaa

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Re: Mac OX XV !!!
« Reply #26 on: March 03, 2011, 01:09:13 AM »
I like Mac... The iPod and iPhone are great devices. What I hate is the fanboys and fangirls who idolise the company.



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Offline nrshida

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Re: Mac OX XV !!!
« Reply #27 on: March 03, 2011, 01:59:42 AM »
Ripley... Apple works only with apple approved/backed stuff... which means companies that pay tithe to Apple. Win & Linux OS's like Ubuntu work with freaking nearly everything.

 :rolleyes: This hasn't been my experience at all. Can you give an example or substantiate this claim?

Not going to try and change the minds of those who've already set them, but my experience of Macs has been totally positive. I'm on my second Mac Laptop now. I use Boot Camp with a very minimalistic Windows installation just to play Aces High. I also have a copy of Parallels Desktop (although I seldom use it) which means you can run Windows applications on your OS X desktop without rebooting, and share files between the two.

I think the operating system is both helpful and supportive of all levels of user ability. This even changes with the same person from task to task. There is always an advanced user interface as well as a beginner's guide. I feel it does what it's supposed to do in an unobtrusive way, while my experience of Windows Operating Systems has been largely the opposite.

Regarding the price, it's important to compare like with like. Perhaps it's a fairer comment that Apple computers tend to be more expensive initially. You must divide this cost over the years of useful service.




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Offline nrshida

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Re: Mac OX XV !!!
« Reply #28 on: March 03, 2011, 02:17:11 AM »
Opposum, if you're trying to draw a Jeep in your signature, remove the
 instructions and just use ordinary carriage returns instead:-

/_|o[____]o
[1---L-OllllllO-
()_)()_)=°°=)_)


This disaster could have been avoided if only you'd bought a Mac.

"If man were meant to fly, he'd have been given an MS Sidewinder"

Offline Vulcan

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Re: Mac OX XV !!!
« Reply #29 on: March 03, 2011, 02:27:36 AM »
I seriously doubt that. Where was the automatic sync and integration with mobile devices in 90's? Where's the near automatic setup of backups built in the OS? Where's the online personal calender, webhost, image sharing and mobile device sync? Where's the 'track my hardware after it gets stolen' on 90's? Where's the built in integration with Google maps and services? Tens of thousands of free and paid apps? With apple things are as close to plug and play as you can get where on PC you're in for manual labour to achieve the simpliest of things just to find out its bugging out on you. People do not give credit to Apple how it set trends and created knowns out of things that were deemed impossible or hype by the mainstream PC people. People laughed about tabs before iPad. Now everyone plays catch-up.

The Apple motto 'it just works' is really where it boils down to. For people who don't want to spend time using the operating system as opposed to doing something productive, there's no better option at the moment than Mac.

Was mostly referring to OS X. Half those 'features' you listed are simple cloud services none of which were ground breaking. I was thinking of multitasking OS's with docks, widgets etc like X Windows, OS/2, and Workbench.

However, mobilewise, most of the early developers for iOS were Palm developers. I used Palm a lot.

My last "Palm" device was a Treo, it lasted 6 years. Outside of my phone calls it did automatic call recording; turn by turn GPS maps; push email; games; web browsing; sync'd with online services; Mp3 player with bluetooth A2DP support; tide tables; ballistics calculator; office doc's on the go; complete exchange sync; and many more apps. I only switched to Android just last year, that last Treo was a 6 year old device and could do things iphones still couldn't do.

As for it 'just works', I worked with an office full of apple people for 8 years including some highly qualified apple techs (enterprise stuff). Watching the pains of having to find 3rd party drivers for stuff like mopiers and 3G usb sticks was hilarious, or kernel panics, or the pains of the DNS bug that hit snow leopard for some users. Or how about that iOS 4 update for pre-iphone4's :)

It's a nice OS, but it's nothing special, nor innovative, just well marketed. Let's no forget apple are now totally dependent on the windows platform to drive new hardware development too ;)
« Last Edit: March 03, 2011, 02:35:54 AM by Vulcan »