Author Topic: murder or justification in the war?  (Read 3992 times)

Offline USRanger

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Re: murder or justification in the war?
« Reply #105 on: March 13, 2011, 03:05:42 AM »
Although the original story may not be true, cases like this have always happened and always will.

"Killin'?  What do any of y'all know about killin'?" -Platoon
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Offline MarineUS

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Re: murder or justification in the war?
« Reply #106 on: March 13, 2011, 03:19:58 AM »
I have that movie memorized word for word
Like, ya know, when that thing that makes you move, it has pistons and things, When your thingamajigy is providing power, you do not hear other peoples thingamajig when they are providing power.

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Offline Yossarian

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Re: murder or justification in the war?
« Reply #107 on: March 13, 2011, 09:19:05 AM »
War is state sanctioned mass murder and you are all bunched about some shell shocked marines full of hate digging gold teeth out of dead japanese soldiers mouths?  Come on man.  What about the firebombing deaths of many hundreds of thousands of civilians, men, woman, the elderly, children, and infants in cities all across Europe, China and Japan?  Or the inhumane treatment of tens of millions of POWs at the hands of Japanese and German incarcerators?  There was so much barbarity and inhumanity during that war, as there is during any war in which millions of combatants wage total violence against one another.  This story about some sniper getting plowed under is of almost insignificant value in the grand scheme of things.

Lets be nice to each other.

I completely agree...but gyrene's post was about two locations, and so my response was only referring to those two locations.

edit: fixed.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2011, 11:01:48 AM by Yossarian »
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Offline gyrene81

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Re: murder or justification in the war?
« Reply #108 on: March 13, 2011, 10:12:22 AM »
I completely agree...but since gyrene's post was about a single incident, my response was also about that single incident.
single incident?  :huh  get out of movie mode yossarian...should i have gone down the long list of places instead of naming just one? don't make me go get the crayons so you can see the picture.
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Offline Squire

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Re: murder or justification in the war?
« Reply #109 on: March 13, 2011, 10:17:33 AM »
Quote
the sniper shot the messenger

At that point he is very likely a dead man. Its battlefield justice and hardly surprising? Your chances of mercy would be slim indeed. Well, let me restate that. Your chances are zip.
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Offline Yossarian

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Re: murder or justification in the war?
« Reply #110 on: March 13, 2011, 11:01:29 AM »
single incident?  :huh  get out of movie mode yossarian...should i have gone down the long list of places instead of naming just one? don't make me go get the crayons so you can see the picture.

I should have said two locations, since you mentioned two locations in your first post on the subject.  But just to clarify: I am aware of the crap that happens in war, and please don't mistake a single post as indicating that I'm not.
Afk for a year or so.  The name of a gun turret in game.  Falanx, huh? :banana:
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Offline Melvin

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Re: murder or justification in the war?
« Reply #111 on: March 13, 2011, 11:03:48 AM »
At that point he is very likely a dead man. Its battlefield justice and hardly surprising? Your chances of mercy would be slim indeed. Well, let me restate that. Your chances are zip.

Bingo.
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Offline redman555

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Re: murder or justification in the war?
« Reply #112 on: March 13, 2011, 11:51:56 AM »
should've blew his knee caps first.

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Offline RufusLeaking

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Re: murder or justification in the war?
« Reply #113 on: March 13, 2011, 12:57:41 PM »
Try learning a little bit about just what Japan was up to in the decade before the oil embargo.  They had plenty of opportunity and were given countless warnings to stop their aggression in China, and they refused to heed any of those warnings. 
Quoted for truth.

The embargo on Japan by the US was an attempt to slow their aggressions (and atrocities) in China. Nanjing, which was so horrible as to shock a Nazi diplomat, happened in 1937-38.

It is a case of misinterpretation that the Japanese perceived the vague threat from Truman of complete destruction as a sign that the US was willing to negotiate terms. Reference the book. The Rising Sun: The Decline and Fall of the Japanese Empire, 1936-1945, John Toland (who also wrote a extensive biography of Hitler.)

Parson the off OP tangent.
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Offline VonMessa

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Re: murder or justification in the war?
« Reply #114 on: March 14, 2011, 09:09:21 AM »
Although the original story may not be true, cases like this have always happened and always will.

"Killin'?  What do any of y'all know about killin'?" -Platoon

^^^
What he said.

Also, to answer your question/quote, more than I ever cared to...
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Offline USRanger

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Re: murder or justification in the war?
« Reply #115 on: March 14, 2011, 12:32:34 PM »
Amen brother
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Offline VonMessa

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Re: murder or justification in the war?
« Reply #116 on: March 14, 2011, 12:45:54 PM »
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Offline ROX

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Re: murder or justification in the war?
« Reply #117 on: March 14, 2011, 03:06:10 PM »
When it comes to "personal" incidents I think it's more of a matter of "payback", although "payback" could be done on far larger country vs country payback but I do not believe that was the case of the US dropping atomic bombs on Japan...that was a different story.

There were many incidents of soldiers killing snipers, flamethrower operators, minelayer sappers, etc. and their superiors simply looked the other way.  

One thing you have to do with history is get every fact possible and then ask yourself (after long soul searching) of WHAT WOULD YOU HAVE DONE?

Now that's one tough pill to swallow, much less really want to come face to face with.  I can only imagine training with a company of guys for months, being shipped out, sent into real battle, and seeing them picked off or mowed down by a specific enemy soldier and not wanting payback--even if the guy did run out of ammo and food.  I can't say I'd judge that guy too harshly, and as said before, many superiors looked the other way and the incident went unreported.  Unethical or even criminal?  Of course.  Something that has happened in most wars since the dawn of time?  Yes.


Country vs country "payback" has many ugly faces but the US was on the world stage as a superpower for really the first time nearing the end of WWII and the eyes of the world was on them and Truman knew it.  The best estimates Truman was getting from Bedell Smith was that "Operation Olympic" would cost at least 1 MILLION American lives to invade the Japanese homeland and bring a conventional end to the war with Japan.  On the other hand he was then (after Roosevelt's death) finally and fully aware of the US A-bomb project and it's possible ability to save over 1 Million American lives at a time where already far too many US families had made sacrifices.  At that point, I don't think payback for Pearl Harbor was on his mind at all...finally ending that horrible conflict as quickly as possible was...along with keeping as much of Japan out of Stalin's hands, who had only declared war on Japan days before.  

Yes, there is an "other hand" to this as well.  Stalin was so incensed about Soviet losses in "Operation Barbarossa" and the atrocities, not to mention the USSR having taken the hugest losses of soldiers and civilians in the war, wanted payback on Germany on a colossal scale.  Of the over 1/2 million German POW's taken (some sources estimate ever far more) less than 100,000 (and some sources estimate far less as well) were ever repatriated back to Germany after the war was over.  Their fates are mostly undocumented but gulags, death camps, and out and out execution has been linked by ex-camp guards after the fall of the USSR.  Payback in Stalin's eyes also had much to do with Hitler's "shoot all Soviet political commisars" on sight order as well as Soviet POW's being sent to German extermination camps...and payback he got.


With over 60 years of 20/20 hindsight, it's difficult if not impossible to put yourself in the shoes of a soldier who sees death all around him everyday and second guess and judge them without actually have been in THEIR shoes at the time.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2011, 03:12:01 PM by ROX »