Arena cap is getting out of hand

[hitech]

I'm curious, in a worst case scenario, for whatever reason, player numbers dropped to the point when two arenas were below this 'low stagnation point', would you rejoin the arenas?  The point is, when you make a statement that splitting the arenas caused a player spike and offer no further explanation, you imply there is a direct cause and effect relationship there, when that is clearly not the case. 

It is a direct cause and effect relationship given the condition at the time we did it. Obviously a split with 2 customers would not be an increase. I have also many times said that there is an optimum number of players  in an arena for game play. This does conditionality the split.

As far as to how small of a need to join them, why do you think we now switch between the 2 modes. Obviously I believe off peak times does not warrant an arena split.

he cause and effect relationship between an arena split and player increase as you explain it on the boards if often very misleading.  A split should only create a player increase if one arena is passed its stagnation point.  Stagnation point should be based on different factors such as map size, game play dynamics, and player interaction.

Do you remember all the things we implemented and tried before the split to accommodate more players in 1 arena? Do you remember when each kill was shown to all, but had to be taken out due to increasing numbers? I would have to go back and check readmes to be able to list all the things that changed to keep everyone in 1 arena. I believe even in our first write up we stated we had reached a point of stagnation, so yes we did our best to explain all.

HiTech

[grizz441]

It is a direct cause and effect relationship given the condition at the time we did it. Obviously a split with 2 customers would not be an increase. I have also many times said that there is an optimum number of players  in an arena for game play. This does conditionality the split.

As far as to how small of a need to join them, why do you think we now switch between the 2 modes. Obviously I believe off peak times does not warrant an arena split.


Do you remember all the things we implemented and tried before the split to accommodate more players in 1 arena? Do you remember when each kill was shown to all, but had to be taken out due to increasing numbers? I would have to go back and check readmes to be able to list all the things that changed to keep everyone in 1 arena. I believe even in our first write up we stated we had reached a point of stagnation, so yes we did our best to explain all.

HiTech

You know what, you're absolutely correct.  Sorry for doubting.  My faith was shaken but ye have restoreth.

[muzik]

Well done hitech, it seems that you have convinced even some hard core opposition that what they want is bad for them and they just didnt see it before. Hard to believe so many people like baloney.

I know that customers are not ALWAYS right, but it is not an outdated adage. And yes it did refer to placating irate customers but at it's core it means more than that and always has. It is still a rock solid fundamental of business that everyone here seems to be misinterpreting my reason for bring it up.

Oh and btw, many companies practice ignoring what the customers ask for, but not because it's good for the customer or they dont know what they want. NO it is something a little more uderhanded than that. That practice that you are referring to is usually part of something akin to planned obsolescence. Companies know customers want a dozen viable features in a new cell phone. The manufacturers give the customers 2 and save 3 for next years model. It even kinda sounded like thats what "company #2" was up to in that article about what customers want.

I am not suggesting that we make policy choices for you. I am suggesting the product we pay for BE WHAT WE WANTED when we came here and not be a frustrating experience or become so inconvenient that people get fed up and leave.

And for those of you who keep comparing this issue with your professions, we are not talking about Mcdonalds. We are not irate customers demanding you give us 100 bucks worth of free hamburgers. whether its a single arena or split arena it doesnt change hitechs expense reports. What we are asking for is not going to break him. I'm pretty sure the vast majority of us are here because we wanted to play a MASSIVELY multiplayer game! THATS WHAT BROUGHT US HERE!

Ive never played it, but WW2online doesnt seem to have a problem with 1000 players arenas that Ive heard of. And not to pull any punches here, but I think they are <<<<COOUU-winningtherace-GGHHH>>>>

If anyone didnt like the cesspool of playing with 700 guys, why would they have come? OK maybe they didnt know. So did you ask them why they got disgusted and left? Or have you repeated "polls are useless" so many times that you actually believe that asking some guy who downloaded your game...."Hey, Hitech here. Creator of Aces High. We noticed that you tried our game online but didnt subscribe. Did you have a problem with the software or did you have a bad experience with the game? We really want to know what you think so that we can improve our game so that maybe in the future we can make the experience better.".....is actually a waste of time?  I mean come on, If the guy didnt like the cesspool, he probably has no qualms about being up front with you. Then you would have facts.

AH is not the only option and all the other options are cozy little get togethers that are supposedly the more appealing healthy type game play you say comes with smaller numbers. Well I gotta tell ya, thats BS. Ive played 8 player AH, Ive played IL2, and MSCFS all online. Not only were they just as caustic as AH can be sometimes, but in many cases they were worse for the same reason that keeps getting ignored here, because absolutely no one dealt with the problems that you refer to as the cesspool. At least in AH we have some controls in place, but you wont add more despite your own admission that the larger the group the more policing needs to be done. And I dont feel any more anonymous with 700 players than I do with 400.

You talk about an elephant in the room, so your solution is to remove the big elephant and replace it with 2 smaller ones. There are weeds in your garden so you put a fence down the middle. The crime rate has gone up, but you dont want to increase the size of the police force. You refer to the problems as "symptoms."  So you have a disease and your response is to split the symptoms up and forget you have the disease. Ahhh but you say you didnt forget, you cured it. If that's the case, I dare you to say what the symptoms were that have disappeared from our AH lives.

"As a small business success strategy, delivering what customers want or selling commodities they need, is, as Mark Twain said, "like the difference between lightning and a lightning bug."

Write this on a rock: Find out what humans want, deliver it and charge for it." - Jim Blasingame is the host of The Small Business Advocate Show.

http://www.timesdaily.com/article/20100502/ARTICLES/5025008?Title=Find-out-what-customers-want-not-what-they-need

So charge me 20 bucks a month and give me a populated 700 player arena!

[TheDudeDVant]

This is not the way I've seen the world work. Asking the question can be very detrimental. No matter which way an answer comes out, you upset many of your customers because you didn't listen to THEIR idea.

It is similar to the idea, it is much easier to ask forgiveness then permission.

What you are forgetting is that in the end the answer you really wish is what the will the customer do with their pocket book. Polls will never show the true representation of this. I can not count the number of times I have seen post from people who say "I'm quiting because of ....." and when you go look if they did delete their account they never did.

History has shown us that very rarely is it a good idea to ask a question, take a poll,announce a change before time that you know will be controversial. All it ends up doing is getting everyone upset before they even see the details.

HiTech

Ok, you've made a believer of me. I will follow.

[TheDudeDVant]

Muzic, is that article you posted your local paper? I ask because it is my local paper. lol

[AWwrgwy]

WALL OF TEXT

I'd just quit if I was so dissatisfied as you. Or, are there no other alternatives and you feel forced to stay no matter what, continuing to whine that it would be better if....

Find out what humans want....

Lets see. One over populated arena. Subscriptions no longer growing. Split arenas. Subscriptions growing.

What did humans want?

wrongway

[TheDudeDVant]

I'd just quit if I was so dissatisfied as you. Or, are there no other alternatives and you feel forced to stay no matter what, continuing to whine that it would be better if....


wrongway

x
Last I saw here was a good discussion. Please try to add to it. Opinion suppression is not the discussion.

[E25280]

Hey, Muzik . . . ever hear of New Coke?  Do you remember what lead up to them replacing the old Coke with the New Coke?  They asked the customers what they wanted.  Did taste tests.  Everyone they asked loved it.

When they released it, sales plummetted, and they had a consumer revolt.  And they then put it back the way it was.  Not so much because of the protests, but because SALES PLUMMETTED.

So, two points.  First, HiTech is absolutely right when he says what the customer really wants and what they say they want are often not the same.  Second, if the arena split was as bad as you make it out to be to the player base at large, then HTC's sales would have PLUMMETTED.  And had sales plummetted, HTC would have done the same as Coke and reversed the decision.

Since he has not, I am comfortable in saying that you, sir, are most certainly in a tiny minority of players for whom the split arenas are a big deal.  So I suggest that it if causes you such angst as you describe, perhaps this is not the place for you, and you should move on.  Bubye.  

If HiTech wishes to bill me for your cancelled subscription, I'm good with that.

[E25280]

x
Last I saw here was a good discussion. Please try to add to it. Opinion suppression is not the discussion.

Well done hitech, it seems that you have convinced even some hard core opposition that what they want is bad for them and they just didnt see it before. Hard to believe so many people like baloney.

Actually, Mr, Muzik has been rather insulting IMO, both in this snippet and elsewhere, which is not exactly "good discussion."  I'm wondering how long it will be allowed to continue.

[NatCigg]

why not go to blue? blue is open most times and therefore a good place for squads.  of course your squad mates would have to suck it up for the team. unfortunately most fighter jocks have a hard time working for the team.

[Slash27]

Who's team?

[muzik]

Muzic, is that article you posted your local paper? I ask because it is my local paper. lol

Nah, just found it on the net.

[muzik]

Hey, Muzik . . . ever hear of New Coke?  Do you remember what lead up to them replacing the old Coke with the New Coke?  They asked the customers what they wanted.  Did taste tests.  Everyone they asked loved it.

We're not talking about coke here Einstein. There are no nearly IDENTICAL substitutes out there. And what you dont seem to remember is that they did away with the old coke completely and gave their customers NO CHOICE, just as hitech has done here. How about speculating on what would have happened if Aces High had a "PEPSI" as a competitor.

First, HiTech is absolutely right

If hitech said grass is pink, you'd be right there.

Since he has not, I am comfortable in saying that you, sir, are most certainly in a tiny minority of players for whom the split arenas are a big deal.  So I suggest that it if causes you such angst as you describe, perhaps this is not the place for you, and you should move on.  Bubye. 

You must have missed a few posts son, because about half of the posters here have said that they didnt like the caps. The problem is most of them say something like..."I'm not real happy with the caps, but hitech says..."  Translation, "I DONT WANT TO STICK MY NECK OUT THERE"

Actually, Mr, Muzik has been rather insulting IMO, both in this snippet and elsewhere, which is not exactly "good discussion."  I'm wondering how long it will be allowed to continue.

I find it rather insulting that someone that I have DEFENDED when people have bashed his game on other sites tells me that Im not smart enough to know what I want and obviously avoids responding.

I also find it insulting that in spite of his rules on flaming and such, intellectually challenged individuals get away with anything as long as they agree with hitech. They are allowed to speak for him on a regular basis and bash paying customers with underhanded comments because they enjoy telling people what hitech does or doesnt want in his game.

So I guess hitech will be happy that you and wrongway are out there running off his undesirable customers. Please, keep up the good work. Now that Il 2 is up to 128 player servers, I may just take your advice!

[kilo2]

I think you have got it right muzik. It bothers me to no end when the "the customer does not truly know what they want, but I do" philosophy is preached. It really is a slap in the face IMO.

Sadly there is no "pepsi" for aces highs "coke." If there was then the customer may have a bit more power, in the sense you could talk with your feet.

I guess you still could with leaving but for me the MB still is greater than the MC.

[kilo2]

Now that Il 2 is up to 128 player servers, I may just take your advice!

Really? Well if the arena gets halved again then there would be no reason not to go over there.