Arena cap is getting out of hand

[Zoney]

Muzik.  Stop.  Please.

[muzik]

Muzik: I created Warbirds. And yes when we started they we not getting smaller. After the entire dev staff left then new game manager started implement all the thing many players were asking for. Did major change of flight models. They went to a historical arena with Axis vs Allies. Changed gunnery lethality. And many other small changes. ALL of these changes were vocally demanded by customers, and each one took a few more away, and created a game where new people were less likely to stay.

Yes fighter ace was a direct competitor. I don't know how you think they were not. They made different choices on how to build the game. But yes they are no longer here.


HiTech

So are you suggesting that those customers flocked to you because they wanted to be where they knew they wouldnt get their requests granted?

Warbirds "went to a historical arena with Axis vs Allies..."

So Warbirds took away their right to choose and Fighter Ace never had the right that I am aware. You had to be US, JAP, GER, USSR, or BRI.

The only conclusion I draw from that is that customers have made it clear they want to fly what they want, when they want. They dont want to have to jump from allies to axis to fly different planes. (KIND OF LIKE NOT JUMPING FROM ORANGE TO BLUE) They want to pick a plane and go right beside their friends and not forced to deal with the hassle of changing sides.

[muzik]

A dueling ladder is already hard enough just in volume, and you're saying you want the whole AH population i.e. thousands, moderated (by volunteers, right?) on something as vague as accidental friendly fire?  Volunteers means someone not getting paid, for the job of taking his hands off the stick at random times so that he can evaluate a substantial volume of reports.  The whole thing is already way more complicated and difficult than automated short-circuit: killshooter. 

Why would "moderated" friendly fire cure kill stealing?  It's not hard at all to maneuver for a safe shot at a TKO'd plane, and being vulnerable to kill-stealing revenge TK's wouldn't work since the revenge TKer gets punished IE you're still trending towards unmoderated kill stealing only with a major admin overhead to boot. 

KS is a necessity because the p.wisdom is the group can't police itself.   

You need to give a more comprehensive demonstration of your command structure proposal.  Without details it could be either very good or very bad.  Personally I wouldn't want a command structure where I'm forced to play another player's idea of "fun".  The toolsheder/furballer debates have already proven that a command structure has the potential to piss off a major part of the players.

I wasnt making a suggestion. I was using an example. And I was crystal clear it wouldnt cure all of it. It would only reduce it and KS is not even the point.

[moot]

I thought so - but your example doesnt prove anything either way because it has no details.  It's a philosophical argument and the philosophical counter argument easily beats it: people want to fly what they like when they like.  Part of why the historical arenas have always been unpopular.

[FLS]

So are you suggesting that those customers flocked to you because they wanted to be where they knew they wouldnt get their requests granted?

Apparently the wishlist forum is a clever ruse to make us believe that HTC listens to their customers.  

I'll give you credit and assume you realize that if two customers have conflicting requests they can't both be granted.

[PFactorDave]

So are you suggesting that those customers flocked to you because they wanted to be where they knew they wouldnt get their requests granted?

I believe that what HiTech is trying to tell you is that customers flocked to Aces High because after getting what they demanded in the other game, the game sucked and they left to find what they really wanted.  A better game(Aces High).

[Delirium]

So are you suggesting that those customers flocked to you because they wanted to be where they knew they wouldnt get their requests granted?

No, they came here because the flight modeling (and smoothing code) initially was a bit better and now, they come here because they want to play with more than 5 guys.

In fact, I'll bet there hasn't been an exodus this large since the Bering Strait land bridge.

[muzik]

No, they came here because the flight modeling (and smoothing code) initially was a bit better and now, they come here because they want to play with more than 5 guys.

In fact, I'll bet there hasn't been an exodus this large since the Bering Strait land bridge.

I agree with completely!

I'm pretty sure the vast majority of us are here because we wanted to play a MASSIVELY multiplayer game! THATS WHAT BROUGHT US HERE!

[moot]

It'd be less massive with uncapped arenas.

[Zoney]

I came here 15 months ago from Warbirds with a squad of 20 guys.  We all left at once.

There were fewer and fewer players to fight against.

Updates were few and far between and were never right and then you would have to wait forever for the fix.

There was virtually no communication between players and those who ran or made or fixed the game.

It was just one guy from the Warbirds squad that first came here and tried it out.  I really did not want to leave but the game was slowly dying and it looked like there was no future and it was never going to really be updated.

The first week here was murder.  It was harder, there was much more to it and more to learn.


So, here I am.  EXTREMELY happy playing here.
 
 Is it perfect?  No.
 Do I need perfect to have fun?  No.
 Does it keep getting better ? Yes.
 Do I trust HTC to listen to his customers and make the right decisions?  Yes.

The worst part of this game is the folks that do nothing but complain.  These people are the "Glass 97% Full" people, because it's sure alot more than half but they are so focused on what they percieve as that last 3% they they just absolutely must have, or they are miserable and they think that last 3% is killing the fun.

Be responsible for your own happiness.  If you are confused, and don't know where to start to turn you own attitude around, if I may humbly suggest, read my sig and try it.

[Ack-Ack]

So are you suggesting that those customers flocked to you because they wanted to be where they knew they wouldnt get their requests granted?

Customers flocked to WB because it was the best game out there for us virtual pilots.  Sadly, HiTech sold it to Wild Bill and then WB went into an ever rapidly increasing decline.  For a great deal of players, switching to the AVP rolling plane set was the last straw and a lot left then.  I know that's when I finally cancelled my WB account.  Got fed up with all the changes that made a great game start to suck.

Warbirds "went to a historical arena with Axis vs Allies..."

So Warbirds took away their right to choose and Fighter Ace never had the right that I am aware. You had to be US, JAP, GER, USSR, or BRI.

The only conclusion I draw from that is that customers have made it clear they want to fly what they want, when they want. They dont want to have to jump from allies to axis to fly different planes. (KIND OF LIKE NOT JUMPING FROM ORANGE TO BLUE) They want to pick a plane and go right beside their friends and not forced to deal with the hassle of changing sides.

You draw the wrong conclusion because it wasn't the majority that wanted the Ava RPS main arena in WB, it was a rather very vocal minority that was able to drown out the majority in the forums.  The new WB owners, who for some reason seemed to base game design decisions on not was best for WB but rather based on the loudest cries on the forums.  What was the end result of this change?  Far more people left the game and were joining, something that WB has not been able to stem to this day.  The only thing that has kept that game around have been the events they run occasionally and on most nights you'll see a general population that is probably no bigger than the population of the MW arena during prime time.

HiTech is correct when he stated that you can't make game design decisions based solely on what the customer demands, iEN is an example of what happens when a game studio does.  

ack-ack

[Dadsguns]

Dads, I'm surprised that you have not seen this and I'm sure many here would back me up, but the low side from a global perspective does not always tell the full story.  A lot of the time most of the low sides force will be hording the overpopulated country's one front, and the overpopulated's other front is being horded by the other medium sized country.   In a three country war global numbers do not tell the whole story very well from my experience.  In fact, it almost seems random of which side there will be a fight on.  The traditional Muppet policy is to go to the low numbers side, but a lot of the time there just aren't any fights.  I'm surprised you haven't noticed this.

Oh I completely agree with you that it happens and have seen it, but again its the cart before the horse thinking.  Cause and effect.  They are attacking that overpopulated side because they are the aggressors, the ones with 40+ players, I have also seen where the underpopulated sides do nothing against the higher populated sides and continue with their own fight.  If all sides were more equal, this fight would spread out evenly as well.
 
I fly the low side and can tell you that the only time when you can take anything against a high side is when their entire side is hording another, (which as of late is the norm) the low number side from what I have observed does not have enough people to put up a formidable attack when the higher number side can easily defend against it (since they can have up to 40 players at times with no eny).   
It just don't happen near as often as you make it out to be that a low player side hordes the higher side, it is not the norm since they are spending most of the time defending and not attacking.

Local ENY would curve down the hoards......and Grizz is absolutely correct on the low number side, actually being the side that's hoarding, it's aggravating, and seems to be what happens more often then not.

Are you both drinking from the same well?  Local ENY would do nothing to curve down the hoards, just as it does nothing to curve them now. 

I don't know who you two are trying to get to eat your BS, well we all know who you want to eat it is.... your not going to convince me otherwise and dont have to, but I will call you out on it when I smell it, start showing some proof in some screen shots. 

Hitech, pay close attention and don't get mislead, some of these same people were all about making it easier for the horde to take bases, you see what that did after many people including myself said it would not be a good idea, hordes got bigger as predicted. 

Your only problem to solve that would eliminate many issues is the hording created or derived from the massively imbalanced sides when at times creates such an unhealthy environment. 

   

[lyric1]

Any one else notice this?

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,309083.0.html

[JOACH1M]

Any one else notice this?

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,309083.0.html

I saw that yesterday night, I just wanted them to keep bashing each other, it is funny

[ink]

Oh I completely agree with you that it happens and have seen it, but again its the cart before the horse thinking.  Cause and effect.  They are attacking that overpopulated side because they are the aggressors, the ones with 40+ players, I have also seen where the underpopulated sides do nothing against the higher populated sides and continue with their own fight.  If all sides were more equal, this fight would spread out evenly as well.
 
I fly the low side and can tell you that the only time when you can take anything against a high side is when their entire side is hording another, (which as of late is the norm) the low number side from what I have observed does not have enough people to put up a formidable attack when the higher number side can easily defend against it (since they can have up to 40 players at times with no eny).   
It just don't happen near as often as you make it out to be that a low player side hordes the higher side, it is not the norm since they are spending most of the time defending and not attacking.

Are you both drinking from the same well?  Local ENY would do nothing to curve down the hoards, just as it does nothing to curve them now. 

I don't know who you two are trying to get to eat your BS, well we all know who you want to eat it is.... your not going to convince me otherwise and dont have to, but I will call you out on it when I smell it, start showing some proof in some screen shots. 

Hitech, pay close attention and don't get mislead, some of these same people were all about making it easier for the horde to take bases, you see what that did after many people including myself said it would not be a good idea, hordes got bigger as predicted. 

Your only problem to solve that would eliminate many issues is the hording created or derived from the massively imbalanced sides when at times creates such an unhealthy environment. 

   

hmmmmm    ok