Author Topic: Arena cap is getting out of hand  (Read 28925 times)

Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: Arena cap is getting out of hand
« Reply #330 on: March 20, 2011, 08:16:36 PM »
 Steal a page of sorts from the AW playbook (with major improvements) and have a score limited newbie arena whereas newbies could opt to go to that arena to hone their skills against each other until they reach a certain level of proficiency to be determined by their stats( Possibly a formula of hit % and KD ratio combination) before being forced into the MA.



I've always advocated that we have an arena like this.  At least in AW, it was a major plus in helping new players get used to the flight model before testing the waters in the regular arenas and keep them playing so they enter the main arenas.  With the score limit, it also prevented veteran pilots from using the newbie arena as their own personal baby seal pup hunting grounds.  An arena like this is nothing but a positive for the game.

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Offline Oldman731

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Re: Arena cap is getting out of hand
« Reply #331 on: March 20, 2011, 09:07:59 PM »
I've always advocated that we have an arena like this.  At least in AW, it was a major plus in helping new players get used to the flight model before testing the waters in the regular arenas and keep them playing so they enter the main arenas.  With the score limit, it also prevented veteran pilots from using the newbie arena as their own personal baby seal pup hunting grounds.  An arena like this is nothing but a positive for the game.


Agreed.

There has to be a better way to kick people out of there, though.  In AW there were people who tried to stay in the newbie arena long after they figured out the basics, to make themselves feel powerful I suppose.

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Offline DREDIOCK

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Re: Arena cap is getting out of hand
« Reply #332 on: March 20, 2011, 09:46:16 PM »
I've always advocated that we have an arena like this.  At least in AW, it was a major plus in helping new players get used to the flight model before testing the waters in the regular arenas and keep them playing so they enter the main arenas.  With the score limit, it also prevented veteran pilots from using the newbie arena as their own personal baby seal pup hunting grounds.  An arena like this is nothing but a positive for the game.

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Oh I agree 1000% I went from MA to Newb areana then came back to the MA after a short stint of about an hour showed me that I was in no way ready to play with the big boys.
 Had alot of fun and made some friends there too. Its always difficult when you enter something and not know alot about it. Its even more difficult when you dont know anyone on top of it.

Its easier if you enter a place where other people you come across dont know alot either and you then can learn together. Then when you enter a place. you not only know at least something. But you know someone as well. You dont feel as much an outsider. And there is someone there you have something in common with.

 Its like going to a party where you dont know anyone. It takes a while before you feel comfortable. Yet you will see if your at a party and there are a few people that dont know anyone. they always seem to manage to congregate together. They all have something in common in that they dont know anyone.
It just makes the transition easier

In the MA there can be such a learning curve. You can quite literally feel like your going against gods. And while it can be great fodder for vets to pad their scores and kill count. It can beat down very quickly so overwhelmingly and thoroughly a newb who's only experience in air to air combat may be what they see on the history channel that they quickly give up and never bother to return. Especially now that flight sims and computer games in general are not dominant on the market like they once were. They have less and less to cut their teeth on.

Here is what I think IMO happens in alot of cases with people who dont stay.

they watch something like Dogfights on TV and see how cool it looks flying around shooting down badguys. then they see the commercial for AH. and say WOW that looks cool I'd love to do that.  Which is exactly the point of having the commercial.
They see the fly any plane against other real life people 24/7, air land and sea combat, and two weeks free. Yadda yadda yadda.
so they figure they will give it a shot.

But instead of being subject to the "hook" which is usually the easiest levels of the game. They are immediately subjected to and thrown into what seems to them to be level 10,000. Now two weeks free is great. But if when you first started playing Pac Man you always started at level 250. Even if you were given unlimited free play forever. You probably wouldn't play for very long.

The idea behind the old arcade games that you dropped coin into for every game wasnt to get people to try it once. find it too hard and then move on. But to get them to try it then stay around to try it again. Thats why the first levels were the easiest to beat. there was a ladder for people to climb to get better.
Here we are absent that ladder, that "Hook"

Here our subject matter is a bit different. Its not an arcade so you cant just have an EZ mode arena. Well you cant but it would be detrimental to the spirit of the game. But throwing newbs with no experience into the MA is similar to starting the game at its highest level.

Difficulty is fun if you have a chance of winning. occasionally winning is fun. but its not so fun if its the equivalent of an amateur boxer with no ring experience going against a professional Mike Tyson, or Muhammad Ali  in their prime. Your just gonna get beat down.
Now, If you start off in the amateur ranks. Get some experience and some ring savvy against other amateurs. Then move to the pros. Then you at least have a boxers chance when you meet the big boys.
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Offline DREDIOCK

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Re: Arena cap is getting out of hand
« Reply #333 on: March 20, 2011, 09:52:02 PM »

Agreed.

There has to be a better way to kick people out of there, though.  In AW there were people who tried to stay in the newbie arena long after they figured out the basics, to make themselves feel powerful I suppose.

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IN AW it was done by score. Once you acheived a certain score then if memory serves correct. You were given rubber bullets.
What often happend is with AOL you could have several screen names. And once you could play on AOL for free, what people would do is simply create another player ID name under one of the alternative AOL screen names. Then go back to the newb arena where the score for that player ID was 0 and club baby seals.

I knew of several people who played the game under several names and with different squads on different sides even.
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Offline PuppetZ

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Re: Arena cap is getting out of hand
« Reply #334 on: March 20, 2011, 10:02:37 PM »
DREDIOCK I posted your post on the wishlist. That kind of idea could net us and HTC some more happy fellow/customer. They have a great product. Let's encourage people to want to get better by easing them into the game instead of trowing them in. 'Cause right now it's 'welcome to the jungle'.
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Offline caldera

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Re: Arena cap is getting out of hand
« Reply #335 on: March 20, 2011, 10:13:38 PM »
LWO is full at the moment and LWB is comprised of 10+ flights of rook bombers (w/ porking fighters) steamrolling bases on one side and NOE nit(wits) steamrolling other bases with even more "team players".  yippee. 



Is this some kind of glitch?  LWO hasn't changed from 200/200 no matter how many times I try.
 
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Offline james

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Re: Arena cap is getting out of hand
« Reply #336 on: March 20, 2011, 10:50:38 PM »
It's the 80% in action it seems. Wonderful job it must be doing to help gameplay.
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Offline 68ZooM

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Re: Arena cap is getting out of hand
« Reply #337 on: March 20, 2011, 11:32:00 PM »
LWO is full at the moment and LWB is comprised of 10+ flights of rook bombers (w/ porking fighters) steamrolling bases on one side and NOE nit(wits) steamrolling other bases with even more "team players".  yippee. 

(Image removed from quote.)

Is this some kind of glitch?  LWO hasn't changed from 200/200 no matter how many times I try.
 

dont know what time your pic was taken but this was later at 9:15 pm west coast time, play was battle the horde in either arena, i just logged off

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Offline DREDIOCK

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Re: Arena cap is getting out of hand
« Reply #338 on: March 21, 2011, 01:25:47 AM »
LWO is full at the moment and LWB is comprised of 10+ flights of rook bombers (w/ porking fighters) steamrolling bases on one side and NOE nit(wits) steamrolling other bases with even more "team players".  yippee. 

(Image removed from quote.)

Is this some kind of glitch?  LWO hasn't changed from 200/200 no matter how many times I try.
 

Those were the numbers when I was trying to get in as well. Knits had the most numbers and were hording whoever it was on the west end of the map.

Im one of the chesspeice loyal. Sorry, but thats just how I am and how I fully intend on staying
I dont look to change sides when my sides numbers are down. And like wise I dont look to change sides when my side has the numbers.

Not wanting to be part of the horde My options were keep trying to get into orange in hopes of a better ratio, or log off.
Eventually I got into orange where knits had the lower numbers and fortunately a decent fight was happening.
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Offline moot

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Re: Arena cap is getting out of hand
« Reply #339 on: March 21, 2011, 02:37:32 AM »
No. Unless they went with outright denial of planes based on score.
Thought that's what you meant.

Quote
You could still fly whatever plane you wanted. You would simply have to put some of your perks at risk to do so.
Tell me. is it fair for an uber stick to fly an EZ mode plane against a newb? In those circumstances. You might as well award the uber pilot a kill bot. Because thats what it amounts to
Again. If its truly the pilot and not the plane. Then the less uber plane shouldn't matter
(I could get really sarcastic here. Not against you Moot. But in general. But I wont)
It doesnt matter anyway. While I would LOVE to see this tried. There is no way HTC will ever do this.
Lowest common denominator doesn't mean what I thought it means.  What I meant is that it would be the same dynamic as when academic classes are dumbed down to keep the worst students afloat.  So in practice you would have some players (the better ones but it shouldn't matter that it's them or the worst ones) literally made to pay for being successful.

Another subtle thing IMO - just going by planes' ENY value isn't enough. Cheap e.g.: me.  I exclusively fly an "uber" plane and 3/4 of the time I fly it where/how it's not uber at all.  Lots of people like to fly the crappier planes (P40 and so on) but personally I prefer the 152 where instead of being in a flying coffin, I've got a plane with a wider range of performance that I can use to match a wider range of opponent difficulty.  For sure the 152 deserves 10-ENY but flying only to its 10-ENY qualities is boring to me.
So again you would have a good plan overall, but you'd be throwing a bit of the baby out with the bathwater.  If players are gonna be dissatisfied either way, it's better for them to be dissatisfied because other players don't police themselves (which is what hordes and kill stealing and truly shameless uberplane howring all boil down to, effectively) than because the game is designed to effectively limit them because the plane they want to fly could possibly but not necessarily be used as an unfair advantage.

Overall I think it'd make for a pretty different kind of game and I'd like to see it actually tried myself.  I think the problem in a nutshell is that this treats all planes as though they were generic flying machines with only performance setting em apart.  But that's not what warbirds are like :)  Each one's got its own character that'll attract some players and others not - almost entirely regardless of their ENY (eg the only 109s I like are the F and K, same with 47s: D11 and M only), the same way it works with car models and brands, and blonde/brunette/redhead nordic/mediterranean/asian, etc. 

I like the newbie arena idea.  One of the possibly hard parts is a reliable skill tracking system.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2011, 02:41:21 AM by moot »
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Offline DREDIOCK

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Re: Arena cap is getting out of hand
« Reply #340 on: March 21, 2011, 07:10:09 AM »
Thought that's what you meant.
Lowest common denominator doesn't mean what I thought it means.  What I meant is that it would be the same dynamic as when academic classes are dumbed down to keep the worst students afloat.  So in practice you would have some players (the better ones but it shouldn't matter that it's them or the worst ones) literally made to pay for being successful.

Another subtle thing IMO - just going by planes' ENY value isn't enough. Cheap e.g.: me.  I exclusively fly an "uber" plane and 3/4 of the time I fly it where/how it's not uber at all.  Lots of people like to fly the crappier planes (P40 and so on) but personally I prefer the 152 where instead of being in a flying coffin, I've got a plane with a wider range of performance that I can use to match a wider range of opponent difficulty.  For sure the 152 deserves 10-ENY but flying only to its 10-ENY qualities is boring to me.
So again you would have a good plan overall, but you'd be throwing a bit of the baby out with the bathwater.  If players are gonna be dissatisfied either way, it's better for them to be dissatisfied because other players don't police themselves (which is what hordes and kill stealing and truly shameless uberplane howring all boil down to, effectively) than because the game is designed to effectively limit them because the plane they want to fly could possibly but not necessarily be used as an unfair advantage.

Overall I think it'd make for a pretty different kind of game and I'd like to see it actually tried myself.  I think the problem in a nutshell is that this treats all planes as though they were generic flying machines with only performance setting em apart.  But that's not what warbirds are like :)  Each one's got its own character that'll attract some players and others not - almost entirely regardless of their ENY (eg the only 109s I like are the F and K, same with 47s: D11 and M only), the same way it works with car models and brands, and blonde/brunette/redhead nordic/mediterranean/asian, etc. 

I like the newbie arena idea.  One of the possibly hard parts is a reliable skill tracking system.

Im sorry. When I said Uber plane I meant EZ mode. Spits, NIKIS F4UC etc
Ive flown the 152, And like the D9 and while I agree to a certain degree those are "uber" rides. Mostly because of their speed and guns. But I dont consider them by any stretch of the imagination to be EZ mode. They are actually two of the most difficult planes to fly and be successful in with any regularity.

As far as the  Scoring in the Newbie arena. I know what you mean. But thats why I am suggesting a mandatory side balance in it. Maybe make it two sided as opposed to 3. That way your assured that the numbers going against one another are relatively even and not a true representation of the MA. Maybe even take it a step further and have zone/base limits. That way you should always have say 10 players always going against 10 players most of the time. Scoring will have to be a formula of sorts. Possibly a combination of Hit%, kills (actual and not proxie) and K/D ratio. And maybe limit the actual time allowed in the Newb arena to be 30 days or a set number of hours plyed total. Im thinking that if you cant get at least a grasp of whats going on in 30 days. Then there isnt much hope for you lol
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Offline FLS

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Re: Arena cap is getting out of hand
« Reply #341 on: March 21, 2011, 07:31:26 AM »
Is a Spitfire an EZ mode ride when it fights another Spitfire?

Limiting players based on score assumes that everyone tries to get their best score which simply isn't true.


Offline Flench

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Re: Arena cap is getting out of hand
« Reply #342 on: March 21, 2011, 08:04:59 AM »
342 post and are we any better off than we was ? I have seen no change . Look's like it would be just to simple to give the suggestion's a try ..what can it hurt ? One can alway's go back to the way it was ..
« Last Edit: March 21, 2011, 08:06:53 AM by Flench »
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Offline Blooz

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Re: Arena cap is getting out of hand
« Reply #343 on: March 21, 2011, 08:21:05 AM »
342 post and are we any better off than we was ? I have seen no change . Look's like it would be just to simple to give the suggestion's a try ..what can it hurt ? One can alway's go back to the way it was ..

Here's a novel idea.

Play in the arena that's available to you when you log in?

Problem solved.
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Offline FLS

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Re: Arena cap is getting out of hand
« Reply #344 on: March 21, 2011, 08:26:40 AM »
342 post and are we any better off than we was ? I have seen no change . Look's like it would be just to simple to give the suggestion's a try ..what can it hurt ? One can alway's go back to the way it was ..

Here's the change you didn't see.

We have changed the % of players needed from 70% to 80% to raise the cap on the opposite arena.

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