Video of some upcoming tank changes

[jolly22]

You have fired the main gun from the commander's position?

When your in the commanders position, what the circle? Looks like a smaller gunsight.

[Reaper90]

When your in the commanders position, what the circle? Looks like a smaller gunsight.

If you look in the video, that circle follows your joystick input, and has a red indicator on it showing what angle (degrees) your turret is rotated to. The turret will follow that circle, but it is not a gunsight, and you cannot fire the main gun from the commander's position while looking through that circle. You STILL have to jump to the main gunner's position to aim and fire the main gun.

[jolly22]

If you look in the video, that circle follows your joystick input, and has a red indicator on it showing what angle (degrees) your turret is rotated to. The turret will follow that circle, but it is not a gunsight, and you cannot fire the main gun from the commander's position while looking through that circle. You STILL have to jump to the main gunner's position to aim and fire the main gun.

really? Then what is the point of the whole Commander position?

[Reaper90]

really? Then what is the point of the whole Commander position?

You can drive the tank from there instead of the old "driver position" as well as rotate the turret from there without having to be in the turret. It allows HTC to more quickly introduce new tanks to the game because they do not have to model the interiors of the tanks anymore (they've done away with the driver position and the hull MG position and slaved the hull MG to the pintle).

It will make bringing your main gun to bare on a target quicker because you can move the turret to approximately the right spot once an enemy GV is spotted from the commander's position, but you STILL have to go to the turret to "fine tune" your aim with the gunsight and fire the gun.

[jolly22]

OK, so you put joystick circle on the tank, quickly go to turret, fire, then return to comm. position?

[Reaper90]

OK, so you put joystick circle on the tank, quickly go to turret, fire, then return to comm. position?

Well, depending on where (what degree off where the circle is moved to that the turret happens to be) the turret has to traverse from to get the barrel on target, there will be a lag in time - you have to wait for the turret to turn and the barrel to be lined up with the circle, before you can "quickly go to turret and fire."

If you watch the video, the barrel moved slower than the circle is able to, so if your barrel is pointing, oh, let's say to your 9 o'clock, and you spot an enemy tank on your 3 o'clock and move the circle to it, you still have to wait for the turret to rotate all the way around 180 degrees to bring the main gun to bare before jumping to the turret, aligning the gunsight, and firing.

[jolly22]

So essentially point and shoot. Thats how i see it still. I understand what your getting at with the lag time, but i still think its degrading the tank warfare.

[gyrene81]

So essentially point and shoot. Thats how i see it still. I understand what your getting at with the lag time, but i still think its degrading the tank warfare.

bet ya a month of ah that after 2 weeks of messing with it every day...you will change your mind. 

[jolly22]

bet ya a month of ah that after 2 weeks of messing with it every day...you will change your mind. 

Thats a good chance, But from the initial view, i don't like the looks of it.

[AWwrgwy]

So essentially point and shoot. Thats how i see it still. I understand what your getting at with the lag time, but i still think its degrading the tank warfare.

It's essentially the same as now except you can accelerate and decelerate from the commander's hatch as well as turn the turret from the commander's hatch.

As it is now, you can steer the tank from the commander's hatch or the gunner's position. You cannot start and stop from the commander's position.

Basically you are just doing away with starting the tank from the driver's position before you jump into the turret.

What's the big difference you don't like? How will it degrade tank warfare?


wrongway

[Shiva]

So essentially point and shoot. Thats how i see it still. I understand what your getting at with the lag time, but i still think its degrading the tank warfare.

I see it as more of the tank commander saying "Target, Sherman, 9 o'clock, 2000 yards, AP", with the from-the-commander view slewing the turret to an approximate lineup, then jumping to the gunner position to do the actual targeting.

On the one hand, you're getting the ability to con a GV more like you would if you actually had a crew. On the other hand, you're losing the ability to actually have a crew and share out the tasks rather than having to do them all yourself. The gripping hand is, how often do you actually see people going out in a crewed GV outside of scenarios?

[Reaper90]

So essentially point and shoot. Thats how i see it still.

I disagree entirely. You're still gonna be in your turret most of the time when the shooting starts. I'm fairly confident if you're in the commander's position, by the time you see the enemy GV he's already in his gunsight lining up on you.

I understand what your getting at with the lag time, but i still think its degrading the tank warfare.

My point still stands, though.... no offense intended, but you guys were complaining about something "degrading the tank warfare" that you didn't even have a firm handle (and in some cases, even a clue - i.e. firing from the commander's position, the idea that there is no more turret position, etc)on how it will work.

Do yourself and the guys at HTC that have been working on this a favor and try it and actually see if you like it before you whizz all over their hard work.  

[Tigger29]

"Realism"???  Being able to perform only 1 function at a time in a crew served gv (albeit being able to turn while in CT position) is a bit limited. The new style will allow more realism imo, because the CT is now in command.

I just feel that AH already has a nice balance of 'realism' vs. 'playability'.  I still maintain that this will flip the balance a bit towards the wrong side of the fence.

Actually, the new sights are going to create a longer learning curve.  No longer will each tank have the same zoom and same reticule. This is more involved than most think.

Maybe... maybe not.  It will be interesting to see how it plays out though.  Yes I see your point about the different reticules, however there is still the "F3" like mode, and the simplicity of the WASD+Mouse.

I can understand liking the internal eye candy in gv's, but I cant remember the last time I sat and tinkered with the internal views of a tank.  It is not needed any more than the internal views of a plane (think bomber fuselage).  I think it is a SMART move on HTC's part.

I don't necessarily disagree with you there and they are correct in that the internals are 'pretty much useless' as far as gameplay is concerned.  It still feels arcade-ish and cheap to me though.  At this point they might as well remove the ability to look behind you in gunner positions of planes as well, as they are 'pretty much useless' as far as gameplay is concerned also.  Why even model the inside of the bomb bays?  I'm seriously concerned about the quantity vs. quality thing.

See my first reply.  This update is not going to dumb down anything.  It is going to make the interface more simple, but all the mechanics will still need to be learned and executed. With having to learn the numerous and very different tank sights, it will no longer be the "grab and go and use the same-same sighting system" as it is now.

WASD/Mouse?  How is that NOT dumbing down things?  Aim and click.

Again, you are going the wrong direction with your concerns, imo.  The update is going to diversify the gv game, not standardize it.  The only thing they are standardizing is the interface.

You are correct that moving this kind of thing to planes is kind of on the absurd side.. at least right now any way.  My post about that was deliberately exaggerated to get a point across, but it is still a valid point that has to be made.  How long IS it until HiTech is willing to resort to WASD+Mouse and graphics cuts for planes as well?  It almost feels as if we'll be playing two separate games at this point.  A 'relatively' realistic flight sim, and a FPS 'unrelatively' unrealistic Tank sim.  At least the operating characteristics of the two were previously 'well matched' with each other, but not any more?

It just seems to me that if HiTech wants to release a FPS type game to compete with WoT and WW2OL then by all means they should do so!  Just make it a different game altogether.  It might even be cool to find a way to have them share the same maps and base statuses and all that, but still separate.  I just don't quit know how I feel with incorporating Arcade-Style antics with AH as it is now.

I'm not totally against the idea, it just doesn't 'feel' right to me as it is right now...

[Baine]

One question: Can we get the German ranging system put into ship's guns too, so you can keep the crosshairs on the target when elevating for extreme range? (I'd also love it if you could launch individual destroyers in the dueling arena for some cool ship-to-ship actions).

Also, I'd love it if we brought back the old tank town. GVing is one of my favorite parts of this game, but frequently you have to drive a pretty long distance before you can engage. I used to spend hours in old TT, where you could get killed and get back into the action in seconds. It was like eating popcorn, I just couldn't stop.
Nowadays, I get killed and I have to ask myself if it is worth the time and effort to fly or drive back to an area where I'll likely get killed again pretty quickly.

I'll miss glancing around the interior of the tank, but I won't miss jumping back and forth from the driver to the commander's position. I liked shifting gears, but it was a pain to back up and get going again after running into a bush or a tree.
I like the idea of more tanks and other vehicles coming to the arena.

[Tigger29]

I disagree entirely. You're still gonna be in your turret most of the time when the shooting starts. I'm fairly confident if you're in the commander's position, by the time you see the enemy GV he's already in his gunsight lining up on you.

If the main gun can be fired from the commander's position, then this will be extremely 'gamey'.  If not then maybe it won't be so bad.  What I got out of the demonstration video was that any gun could be aimed and fired from the commander's position (albeit without the reticule).  I can see people getting very good at gauging a target's distance without even needing the site, and they would completely change the entire tank game within AH.

My point still stands, though.... no offense intended, but you guys were complaining about something "degrading the tank warfare" that you didn't even have a firm handle (and in some cases, even a clue - i.e. firing from the commander's position, the idea that there is no more turret position, etc)on how it will work.

It's not that we are complaining about it so much as wondering WHY these changes are being made, when the tanks are already really, REALLY good as it is.  On our lists of complaints, tanks are pretty much on the bottom.  Yeah I know and understand that HiTech isn't running a democracy here, but it just seems funny that HTC decides to post a demo video of this on Facebook (and youtube) and change something that no one has really even mentioned... and that that change uses the same WASD commands and similar targeting methods as WoT.  This tells me that HTC is going after a piece of WoT's pie!  And maybe that's great!  I'm just afraid that they will forget what this game is about and end up turning it into something that is just like "That Other Game".

Do yourself and the guys at HTC that have been working on this a favor and try it and actually see if you like it before you whizz all over their hard work.  

You've made a good point there and who knows?  Maybe I'll fall in love with the interface once I try it.  I don't see it as 'whizzing' so much as constructive criticism, but whatever.  You can't expect any real change to be made and some people not be against it...