B29 guns

[icepac]

The other possibility is latency causing plane to seem further out or closer than it really is depending on whether closing or diverging.

[dirtdart]

As I land my kitfox lite into a twenty knot crosswind, while sipping tea and munching some biscuits I reckoned the following.  

At roughly two seconds after the bullet leaves the b29 and roughly 1.5 k the bullet meets the plane. So an apparent 2k shot is more around 1.5.  Assuming the following.

.50 900 m/s
B29 160 m/s
Trail plane 170 m/s

Very rough numbers here so you chart and historical document guys please be nice...  

[SlapShot]

Whenever anyone comes on here and states with exactness a distance and/or the amount of rounds that they fired or got hit with, I take it with a HUGE grain of salt. People tend to over exaggerate in instances such as this.

If you got hit with rounds, then you were within the parameters of a valid hit ... plain and simple. If it was a B-24, you would have gotten hit also ... the .50 cals in this game are exactly the same regardless of what platform is carrying it.

Film or it didn't happen.

[MORAY37]

The gunners on the City of Bartlesville scored a kill on a Japanese interceptor over a mile away during a low level daylight raid over Japan.  The radar guided fire control system enabled the gunners to hit targets further out since all the aiming and Kentucky windage was all done by computer.  Not saying 100% hits all the time but getting hit 2,000yards away wasn't out the realm of possibility.  I don't think a manually aimed gun turret like on the B-17 or B-24 would have pulled it off, but with a computerized radar guided fire control system, it was possible.

On a side note, Airman Albert E. Moore serving as the tail gunner on the B-52 "Diamond Lil" shot down a MiG-21 when it locked on the MiG with it's radar 4,000 yards out and destroyed it with his quad .50 caliber machine guns.  This was the last time a tail gunner shot down a plane with machine guns.  This took place on Christmas Eve, 1972 during the Linebacker raids.

A week earlier, Staff SGT. Sam Turner, detected two MiG-21s approaching his B-52 and locked on the closest one, about a mile away and fired.  He couldn't tell from the resulting fireball he saw whether or not he hit the MiG-21 or if it was an errant SAM missile that blew up early.  When he looked at his radar, he noticed only one fighter was visible and it was quickly leaving the area.  Staff SGT. Sam Turner was awarded the Silver Star for this action.  

ack-ack

Sorry ack, you're wrong, at least on range.

However, the Diamond Lil's crew faced enemy air power. A North Vietnamese MiG-21 raced to intercept the B-52. The bomber’s tail gunner, Airman 1st Class Albert Moore, noticed the MiG's approach.

"I observed a target in my radar scope 8:30 o'clock, low at eight miles," Moore wrote six days later in his statement of claim for enemy aircraft destroyed. "I immediately notified the crew, and the ‘bogie’ started closing rapidly. It stabilized at 4,000 yards, 6:30 o'clock. I called the pilot for evasive action and the [electronic warfare officer] for chaff and flares.

"When the target got to 2,000 yards, I notified the crew that I was firing. I fired at the bandit until it ballooned to three times in intensity then suddenly disappeared from my radar scope at approximately 1,200 yards, 6:30 low. I expended 800 rounds in three bursts."

Another gunner aboard the B-52, Tech. Sgt. Clarence Chute, verified Moore’s kill in his report.

[Jayhawk]

I would guess the most likely explanation is he though he was 2.0k away but had drifted closer.  Film?

[Krusty]

Moray, he fired 3 bursts, only hitting on the last which was 1.2k out

And that was radar guided and computer controlled, to boot!

[LLogann]

My effective range with the M2 is 1.0k.  I can certainly squeeze off multiple hits from 1.5k.  I am unsure if I have ever made contact from 2k but from a physics standpoint it is not unreasonable.  However the impact force would be so deteriorated that it will cause little to no damage.  Did they register damage on you?

can they really reach to a range of 2k?! That seems a bit much to me......

[MORAY37]

Moray, he fired 3 bursts, only hitting on the last which was 1.2k out

And that was radar guided and computer controlled, to boot!

I know Krusty, that's my point. (you may wish to read and comprehend before you post) Ack-Ack stated the B-52 gunner was hitting at 4,000 yards, which was wrong.  He didn't even fire until 2,000 yards, and hit until under 1,500.  The listed max effective range on the tail guns on a B52 (circa 1970) is around 1,200 to 1,600 yards, with radar guided fire control.

My point is that gunnery in AH is way too simple.  It is relatively easy to hit at ~1.5K (which means 1.01K-1.5K in game terms), a range that radar fire control couldn't match.

[dirtdart]

Fact.. ..50 Cal m2 round will travel nearly six kilometers. To say that it would have little energy at 1.5 k is a bit of a understatement.  Rifle bullets at terminal velocity went through the roof of my container in Iraq and they are much lighter.  Also considered the density of air at that altitude.  Read about McConnell during the Korean war.  He shot at what may be considered long ranges but was successful because of his abilities as a marksman and the less dense atmosphere. 

Regardless any impact from a bullet would do something. 

[LLogann]

I can't agree with the AH part.....  Few people know how to attack buffs first off, add the fact that most don't gun well and you have a menagerie of possibilities.  If you are trying to intercept my buffs, 999000's buffs, yeah you'll find it very difficult, even at the correct vectors, but most of the time I am hunting I rarely have a problem.  The B29's firepower is limited by the field of view.  I do not feel they are special. (as of yet)

I know Krusty, that's my point. (you may wish to read and comprehend before you post) Ack-Ack stated the B-52 gunner was hitting at 4,000 yards, which was wrong.  He didn't even fire until 2,000 yards, and hit until under 1,500.  The listed max effective range on the tail guns on a B52 (circa 1970) is around 1,200 to 1,600 yards, with radar guided fire control.

My point is that gunnery in AH is way too simple.  It is relatively easy to hit at ~1.5K (which means 1.01K-1.5K in game terms), a range that radar fire control couldn't match.

[Krusty]

I know Krusty, that's my point. (you may wish to read and comprehend before you post) Ack-Ack stated the B-52 gunner was hitting at 4,000 yards, which was wrong.  He didn't even fire until 2,000 yards, and hit until under 1,500.  The listed max effective range on the tail guns on a B52 (circa 1970) is around 1,200 to 1,600 yards, with radar guided fire control.

My point is that gunnery in AH is way too simple.  It is relatively easy to hit at ~1.5K (which means 1.01K-1.5K in game terms), a range that radar fire control couldn't match.

Ah, I took it as you were advocating long-range gunnery (didn't see the 4K part of Ack's post).

I comprehend just fine, it was simply out of context.

[SlapShot]

I know Krusty, that's my point. (you may wish to read and comprehend before you post) Ack-Ack stated the B-52 gunner was hitting at 4,000 yards, which was wrong.  He didn't even fire until 2,000 yards, and hit until under 1,500.  The listed max effective range on the tail guns on a B52 (circa 1970) is around 1,200 to 1,600 yards, with radar guided fire control.

My point is that gunnery in AH is way too simple.  It is relatively easy to hit at ~1.5K (which means 1.01K-1.5K in game terms), a range that radar fire control couldn't match.

Radar control was to put the bullets on the target which does not have anything do with a .50 cal bullet hitting a target at any range. If the flight path of a .50 cal round intersects the flight path of another object, while in flight, the object will be hit.

Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't a .50 cal still have some serious punch power at some serious distances down range. I watched a "Sniper" special on TV the other night and they highlighted the Canadian Sniper who took his target out at 1.5 miles and from what was reported, his target didn't just get a bruise but rather was blown apart. That is some serious hitting power after traveling 1.5 miles.

I fly .50 cal planes about 99.99999% of the time and have for the last couple of years. I can get hits at 1.0K out, but I have never gotten hits at 1.5K. I tried it last night. I was chasing an F4U over water that was flying straight and level 1.5K out ... I fired multiple bursts and as Rolex pointed out, the rounds just seem to disappear before reaching the target.

When someone says they got hit by .50 cals 2K out ... I say bollocks ... the game doesn't allow it ... even if it was possible.

[Tupac]

Kinda off topic but:
There are some wirbl drivers that have no trouble hitting people at 2k out. Didnt the german 20s have inferior ballistics to the hispano?

[Lusche]

Kinda off topic but:
There are some wirbl drivers that have no trouble hitting people at 2k out. Didnt the german 20s have inferior ballistics to the hispano?

You may think of the plane mounted MG 151/20 vs Hispano. The Wirbelwind carries regular long barreled and heavy AA guns.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

Fact.. ..50 Cal m2 round will travel nearly six kilometers. To say that it would have little energy at 1.5 k is a bit of a understatement.  Rifle bullets at terminal velocity went through the roof of my container in Iraq and they are much lighter.

As discussed on the other thread the bullet that pierced your container was not at terminal velocity unless it was fired right next to your container directly upwards. If it was fired 1 mile away the trajectory was elliptic and speed way above terminal velocity.