FW190 vs. BF109: Turn Radius (2011)

[Slade]

Guys,

There is some evidence that the 190 could out turn the 109.

FW-190 vs BF-109 per Werner Seitz:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0YLLBvIBFk&feature=related

The 190 could out turn and out roll the Messerschmitt at any speed.

In AH the 190 can roll great but cannot turn inside a 109 under normal circumstances it seems.

Do you feel the 190's turn radius is modeled correctly in the current version of AH?


Thanks,

Slade  

[BaldEagl]

They also said it was more manouverable and in many ways it is.  You have to keep in mind that a component of both manouverability and ability to turn is the ability to rotate your lift vector, i.e. roll which the 190 excells at. No where in that clip did they say it could sustain a flat turn better.  The other key here is "at any speed".  The 190 remains very controllable at very high speeds.

So I think both they and AH are correct.

[gyrene81]

i used to think the same thing but i've since learned better...it's going to depend on a number of factors including what baldeagl stated...which version of 109 vs which version of 190?

the 109-e and f models were known for tight flat turns...turn radius suffered with the g models.

with a few minor items in the name of "playability"...all the books and research i've scrounged indicate what exists in ah is very close to the real thing.

[hitech]

with a few minor items in the name of "playability"

And what items would those be?

HiTech

[Debrody]

Have you ever tryed to turn a 190 a5 vs a 109 g-6, without flaps?  They were produced in almost the same time, and they turn pretty much the same. Flaps/stall speed makes the difference.

[gyrene81]

And what items would those be?

HiTech

are you sure you want me to answer that?

[FLS]

are you sure you want me to answer that?

Just think how educational it will be.

[gyrene81]

Just think how educational it will be.

actually it would not be worth it...just end up being another long boring argument over what information is valid according to who has possession of it.

[hitech]

actually it would not be worth it...just end up being another long boring argument over what information is valid according to who has possession of it.

Then don't make accusations that we change flight modeling based on playability.

HiTech

[Urchin]

I wish I could find the graphics that showed the differences between planes before and after patch 2.07 (major airflow patch). 

Before that patch the 190a5 was actually a pretty agile bird - I definitely had no qualms mixing it up with 109s or F4Us. The P-51D and 109G-10 (today it is the K-4) were very evenly matched.

After that patch the 190s lost about 40% or so off their turn radius, and the P-51 was similarly affected.

That really changed the dynamics between some of the planes in the game.

[STEELE]

I wish I could find the graphics that showed the differences between planes before and after patch 2.07 (major airflow patch). 

Before that patch the 190a5 was actually a pretty agile bird - I definitely had no qualms mixing it up with 109s or F4Us. The P-51D and 109G-10 (today it is the K-4) were very evenly matched.

After that patch the 190s lost about 40% or so off their turn radius, and the P-51 was similarly affected.

That really changed the dynamics between some of the planes in the game.

The A6 would be an awesome addition, it's wingloading is 1kg per m^2 less than the A5, also has the upgraded outboard cannon. (I'm not ambitious enough to convert that to non-metric)
Did U know the Ta152 H has 1lb per ft^2 lower wingloading than the 51D? Its true   

[Slade]

I did not mean to start pointing match.  I love this game and how HiTech have modeled the planes.  I was just seeking more understanding on the modeling.  

I appreciate all the feedback on the topic.  

Is there an up-to-date list of turn radius and\or sustained turning for the current plane set?

Thanks again. :-)

[gyrene81]

Then don't make accusations that we change flight modeling based on playability.

HiTech

don't put words in my mouth or assume i'm saying something i'm not...i never specifically or obliquely mentioned anything about the flight modelling.

[BaldEagl]

Is there an up-to-date list of turn radius and\or sustained turning for the current plane set?

Thanks again. :-)

 

Do a BBs search for Spatula's application.  That info is in the app.

[hitech]

i used to think the same thing but i've since learned better...it's going to depend on a number of factors including what baldeagl stated...which version of 109 vs which version of 190?

the 109-e and f models were known for tight flat turns...turn radius suffered with the g models.

with a few minor items in the name of "playability"...all the books and research i've scrounged indicate what exists in ah is very close to the real thing.

I took this too mean you were saying we changed performance for playability sake, if you meant something different then I apologize for jumping on ya.

I did not mean to start pointing match.  I love this game and how HiTech have modeled the planes.  I was just seeking more understanding on the modeling. 

I appreciate all the feedback on the topic. 

Is there an up-to-date list of turn radius and\or sustained turning for the current plane set?

Thanks again. :-)

Questing models is never a problem slade, we can always have made a mistake.

Just assume we want performance numbers accurate just like you do. And we have changed things in the past when something comes to light that we havn't seen.

HiTech