FW190 vs. BF109: Turn Radius (2011)

[Karnak]

Ah yes, one Mossie.  I'd misread that as being 333 Squadron vs two Fw190s.  One Mossie vs two Fw190s is an even better example refuting the claim by save.


save,

The Fw190A-5 rolls better than the Mossie, as you noted, and it accelerates/climbs better.  The Fw190D-9 rolls better, accelerates/climbs better and is faster.  I am not sure if the Fw190A-8 or F-8 in AH will do anything other than out roll the Mossie.  They are also much smaller, more squirrely targets.

[Scherf]

Report sent Karnak.

As for the 190 being a small target, all a 190 has to do to avoid me is hold still while I poop off all my ammo, can't hit the damn things, though that's just me and my craptacularity.

[pervert]

That makes no sense.  The Fw190D-9 may as well just not turn at all there and it will out run said Spitfire Mk VIII.  That is certainly not a description of a Spitfire being out turned by an Fw190.

And that is certainly not what I said in my original statement, I never mentioned it out turning a Spitfire, the original statement I said stands true.

A FW190-D can equal a continuous turn on the deck with a Spitfire! that is a fact 

[Rob52240]

Then don't make accusations that we change flight modeling based on playability.

HiTech

From what I understand, changing the simulation for the sake of playability is one of the things that doomed Warbirds.

[Karnak]

And that is certainly not what I said in my original statement, I never mentioned it out turning a Spitfire, the original statement I said stands true.

It doesn't do that either.  You're playing semantic games.  The Spitfire's turn is faster than the Fw190s in terms of degrees per second and has a smaller radius.  You are making up your own "turn" test, designed from the outset with a particular desired outcome, and declaring the Fw190 a match.

Testing doesn't work like that.

[Stoney]

A FW190-D can equal a continuous turn on the deck with a Spitfire! that is a fact  

Aerodynamically impossible...

[pervert]

It doesn't do that either.  You're playing semantic games.  The Spitfire's turn is faster than the Fw190s in terms of degrees per second and has a smaller radius.  You are making up your own "turn" test, designed from the outset with a particular desired outcome, and declaring the Fw190 a match.

Testing doesn't work like that.

Not really, your the one who is trying to change my original comment into a statement were the spitfire can win using its attributes.

Aerodynamically impossible...

[pervert]

Aerodynamically impossible...

Lets hear why. 

[Karnak]

Not really, your the one who is trying to change my original comment into a statement were the spitfire can win using its attributes.

You specifically said the Fw190D could match the Spitfire Mk VIII for turning.  That is false.  You aren't doing a turning match in your described method, you're doing a speed test.

Basically, you created a test of your own that has designated results and are now complaining when called on it.

Fact: The Fw190 cannot match the Spitfire in  sustained turn.

[Debrody]

Lets hear why. 

Couse the same reason why the F-86 can outturn an F-104.
 

[save]

Karnak , as I wrote, it was only the 190a8 that I have enough experience against the mossie in AH , the A5 may have more options.

A8 might even climb a bit better against mossie really low on wep, something I dont try concidering its more or less an suicide in the A8 , since its too slow plane against its mid-1944-45 competitors found in MA.

[pervert]

You specifically said the Fw190D could match the Spitfire Mk VIII for turning.  That is false.  You aren't doing a turning match in your described method, you're doing a speed test.

Basically, you created a test of your own that has designated results and are now complaining when called on it.

Fact: The Fw190 cannot match the Spitfire in  sustained turn.

Really? Do tell me if the end result is a circle? As the result of a turn? I am not complaining you however seem to have problem with reading  

[PJ_Godzilla]

Lets hear why. 

Do we really have to produce the sustained turn equation again? It's a function of the wingloading and, implicitly, both the powerloading (via max bank) and the slope of the CL/CD curve (via the CL at the sustained turn).

In any case, it's hard to tell what you're arguing here, Perv, since it's a fact that the turn rate of the Spit, as well as its radius, are both much better than that of the 190.

Otherwise and with regard to this thread, Holy Necro-Bump Batman!!!

[Karnak]

Karnak , as I wrote, it was only the 190a8 that I have enough experience against the mossie in AH , the A5 may have more options.

A8 might even climb a bit better against mossie really low on wep, something I dont try concidering its more or less an suicide in the A8 , since its too slow plane against its mid-1944-45 competitors found in MA.

Your claim, and the claim of the site you linked to, was not supported by either of the sites it linked to, nor by the historical data supplied by Scherf.  You claimed that the Mossie VI vs Fw190A-8 fight in AH was not correct.  This does not seem to be the case.

I will agree with you that the Fw190A-8, starting co-E, with a Mosquito Mk VI in AH will have a hard fight, but that does not seem to be incorrect based on the historical data.

Really? Do tell me if the end result is a circle? As the result of a turn? I am not complaining you however seem to have problem with reading  

That the end result was a, very large, circle does not make it a sustained turn test.  We don't get to just create new definitions of terms because redefining them helps our argument.

[pervert]

That the end result was a, very large, circle does not make it a sustained turn test.  We don't get to just create new definitions of terms because redefining them helps our argument.

There was no argument just a statement of fact (albeit under unconventional circumstances to you), while I have an open mind to see that a bigger circle is a bigger circle, your mind only sees the spitfire winning by turning better when I did not state who won, so tell me the official maximum radius for this circle? Have I went over the limit, if so by how much?