Help with air to air combat

[PJ_Godzilla]

Wow, lots of useful replies - good stuff 

I'll offer you a couple of things. Understand my position. I've been playing for about 2 years as time permits. Many on the bbs are far more experienced, many are more talented. Some of these guys are monsters of the game (Soulyss killed me last night).

1. There's a lot to playing well that has to do with flying in a way that may not be intuitive (you sidestep much of this in a Spit or Zero). Consider, for example, how much time you spend making a 2g turn while holding your airspeed above a certain level. Developing a "feel" for such things is difficult and, at least in my experience, takes a lot of time. Patience is required.

2. The game (and bbs sometimes) is full of what the Germans might call "arscheklownen". Thus, there will be times where you can make every mistake there is and still get the kill - and vice versa. Why? Because arscheklownen come in all varieties.

3. Leon Badboy Smith, Robert Shaw, and Oswald Boelcke are probably the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost (not in that order) of ACM and tactics. I'd recommend looking at Badboy's E-M Diagram simple tutorial right away. You can find it online if you search "Badboy Aces High E-M diagram". Shaw's book is always available somewhere. I bought my copy on amazon. It's called "Fighter Combat", IIRC.

4. Somebody else has written this before but I always feel I learn a lot by flying a nemesis aircraft now and again. For example, I started with the 190d and, while I may still get killed by a good Dora stick now and again, never am I especially afraid to face one. I know what he's got, after all. I only fear a Spitty when it's something like co-E. Low and slow, it's a target, albeit one of the more dodgy ones.

5. Get some squaddies. Buds can help you learn a lot over the radio and in combat. Your newbie status will, in some ways, help them.  Actually, we'd (JV44 Wurger) probably take you if you want to be a Luftwannabe.

6. Try AvA, per Oldman. The focus there is small group or even 1v1. No icon makes for better realism, too.

Just last night I had an hilarious battle in AvA 1 on 3 using a 190A-5 against 3 Spitty 5s. By using the shameful tactics of ack-hiding and a Ho, I actually got home with 2 kills and the loss of an elevator, aileron, and a bunch of wing skin, judging by the holes. Was it textbook? No way. Did I use every advantage I had. Yep - and that's fair game 1 versus 3, as I see it.   That's not really in the spirit of the game, I figure, but I'll take it. That's point 7. - enjoy the ride, whatever it brings. Otherwise, you end up a squeaker.  

[morfiend]

Don,


   Check out the Offline missions Forum,I'm sure you can find a mission or 2 that will give you a target that doesnt just racetrack around a base.

  Not sure what you use for a joystick but you could attach it to a piece of ply or MDF to hold it permanently then secure that to the desk without marring the finish on the desk. Checkout the hardware forum for simpits and the like as there's many clever ideas to mount a joystick.

  If Mtnman would be so kind to post a pic of the mount he made that fastens to any computer chair that might help too.

    Next time we meet in the TA I can suggest a few British players who may be willing to help you along in your timezone.



     

[mtnman]

  If Mtnman would be so kind to post a pic of the mount he made that fastens to any computer chair that might help too.

[ink]

ask a vet who likes to help...many here have volunteered,  the TA its better then the DA for you wont die and can just re merge

[Ardy123]

There are alot of 'vet's who would be more than willing to help you, you just have to ask. Also, depending on the ride you are interested in mastering, there are different people you can ask, ex MtnMan is godly in an f4u.

[morfiend]

Thx Mtnman,


  I'm sure your mount will inspire afew to build something simalar!




   

[Dichotomy]

Just had a blast at some targets offline and I've found out two things:

a) It's best to mount your stick on something rather than just hold it in you lap like I was doing.

b) Turning the tracers off helps me 

I was actually trying to come at the drones from side on as well as behind, but my aim is still not good enough for that. And I STILL lose the enemy plane below my nose when shooting. I have my hat-forward bound to a view that looks over the left-top of the engine which is handy for following the enemy aircraft but not much help when shooting at it.

If you're not worried about marring your desktop you could try some 2" wide velcro. 

[Lab Rat 3947]

Mtnman. Thanx for the pics of the mount.   

[mtnman]

Thx Mtnman,

  I'm sure your mount will inspire a few to build something simalar!

   

Mtnman. Thanx for the pics of the mount.   

No problem guys...

One of the benefits to a set-up like mine is that my arms (elbows) are supported by the chair arms.  For me, this helps with keeping fine control.  It also reduces fatigue. 

When I played a ton way-back-when, I actually played so much that I ended up having back problems from holding my arm up/out onto my joystick which was velcroed to the top of my my desk.  I also had neck problems because my monitor was too low. 

I raised the monitor by building a base under it, and built this joystick/throttle apparatus.  No more back/neck problems, and better control, more comfortable, etc...

[Puma44]

Like a lot of new players, I am getting shot down regularly. I fly the P38L, and would like to stick to it rather than chasing the "win button" plane, if such a thing exists. Anyway I have a couple of questions:

1) What's the best way to improve your dogfighting skills? Practicing in the arena is the obvious choice, but flying for 15 mins just to get shot down as soon as you reach the flight is a very time consuming and frustrating way of going about it, especially since you get no feedback of what you did wrong.

2) Often I will be in the situation where the other aircraft has an alt advantage over me. Usually we will be heading towards each other, just the other guy is 2k above me or thereabouts. 99% of the time, the enemy plane with fly over me, then pull a split S to come down on my tail. Now basically there are 3 moves I might try in this situation: a) split S, b) immelman, or c) flat turn. However, no matter which move I pull, the enemy always ends up on my tail and I end up dead. Are there any tips for this situation? I am considering just running from any higher alt enemy fighters in future.


Er, that's it for now I guess. But any tips for improving would be gratefully received. 

Start by learning Basic Fighter Maneuvers (BFM).  Find one of the many great sticks in here that will teach you the basics and then practice, practice, practice. Once you get the basics down and your muscle memory kicks in, you'll start turning the table on those guys that were at your six all the time.  Keep it simple for a while... The KISS principle. If you try to learn this in the horde attacks in the MAs, you'll become the designated grape.  ....and one more thing.   Always check six and under your belly. Always be prepared for someone to be lurking around those two places.  

[Puma44]

Another thing that you may find helpful; find someone to ride along with, send a join request, and watch how others do it.  This may help the learning curve also.  Happy hunting and.....

 Check Six!   

[PuppetZ]

I'll add that THE hardest thing to learn for me is not to bite more than I can chew. I always get eager and realize too late that i'm in big doo doo. And also take EVERY shot you can. I was wasting shot opportunity because i was always looking for the perfect shot. Dont. Most plane have enough ammo to allow for liberal spraying of the sky, so dont hesitate to squeeze that trigger. and a final trick

what i do, is to fly past em, and then throw big aluminum parts at em. if that doesn't work, i throw a spikey heel at em.....

so always keep a spikey heel handy.

Seeya in the sky gentleman

[shotgunneeley]

Maybe its because I spend most of my time in bombers. Maybe its because I have an 8 year old Saitek ST290 Pro (twisty rudder). Maybe its because my view angles are not set correctly. Maybe its because I have wireless Satelite.

For whatever the reason, I have a hard time flying fighters both offensively and defensively. I've been playing this game for 3 years. I get my breaks here and there, but overall I have some of the worst luck in this game.

1.) I get put into the tower before I even here the first bullet hit me. Half of my deaths are instant tower or fatal damage.
2.) It doesn't matter what I'm in or at what altitude, the other guy is always both faster and more maneuverable.
3.) Currently, my forward view is only set to look directly down the gunsight. If I ever get into a turn fight, I can never see what my bullets are doing because when I pull lead the engine block/instrument panel covers the target. This never seems to be a problem for other guys, who seem to pull impossible angles where your sure they don't have a solution on you, then - BOOM, DEAD.
4.) Energy is a mystery to me, its almost illogical. I've benzed guys who were TnB'n going over 500 miles an hour, pulled straight up in the vertical, and got shot down by the guy who was low and slow (I stalled first!). Reverse that situation, I've had guys benze me closing at a rate of 1k per second, then all of the sudden pull in with me like my shadow at d400 with every juke I pull.
5.) I fire a lot of rubber bullets. At times I've hit guys with enough >.50 cals to think to myself, "that would have been enough to kill me 5 times over". Most of the time I'll give them a fuel leak, I can never put anyone away.

Before you guys say "review the films", Ive already done that. Its the same old crap. With internet lag on my end, I have no idea how many bullets my opponent had to fire or at what angle he had to truly be at to kill me. Most of the time in film viewer it shows me dying from 1 ping by an opponent nose on with an imaginary point 20 yards behind me.  Rant over, I'm tired and frustrated.

[The Fugitive]

Maybe its because I spend most of my time in bombers. Maybe its because I have an 8 year old Saitek ST290 Pro (twisty rudder). Maybe its because my view angles are not set correctly. Maybe its because I have wireless Satelite.

For whatever the reason, I have a hard time flying fighters both offensively and defensively. I've been playing this game for 3 years. I get my breaks here and there, but overall I have some of the worst luck in this game.

1.) I get put into the tower before I even here the first bullet hit me. Half of my deaths are instant tower or fatal damage.
2.) It doesn't matter what I'm in or at what altitude, the other guy is always both faster and more maneuverable.
3.) Currently, my forward view is only set to look directly down the gunsight. If I ever get into a turn fight, I can never see what my bullets are doing because when I pull lead the engine block/instrument panel covers the target. This never seems to be a problem for other guys, who seem to pull impossible angles where your sure they don't have a solution on you, then - BOOM, DEAD.
4.) Energy is a mystery to me, its almost illogical. I've benzed guys who were TnB'n going over 500 miles an hour, pulled straight up in the vertical, and got shot down by the guy who was low and slow (I stalled first!). Reverse that situation, I've had guys benze me closing at a rate of 1k per second, then all of the sudden pull in with me like my shadow at d400 with every juke I pull.
5.) I fire a lot of rubber bullets. At times I've hit guys with enough >.50 cals to think to myself, "that would have been enough to kill me 5 times over". Most of the time I'll give them a fuel leak, I can never put anyone away.

Before you guys say "review the films", Ive already done that. Its the same old crap. With internet lag on my end, I have no idea how many bullets my opponent had to fire or at what angle he had to truly be at to kill me. Most of the time in film viewer it shows me dying from 1 ping by an opponent nose on with an imaginary point 20 yards behind me.  Rant over, I'm tired and frustrated.

A LOT of this is going to be solvable with a little time with a trainer. I have the same twisty stick I used while I was on the road and while not as good as my beloved CH Fighterstick it was a decent stick.

Having your views set is very important. Default views are OK, but adjusting for a better view helps. Go to the trainers page and get Murdrs views he has posted there. Most of the planes are there (vile is old so the newer planes are not on it) but seeing how the other are set you'll be able to set the new planes.

Firering with that big old engine block in the way is even easier to fix. You are flying in 2d. Like I use to do up was up and down was down and the canopy points up and the gear points down. Get that out of your head ! If there was no land to "tell" you whats up or down you wouldn't know. What you have to concentrate on is pulling your nose out in front of your target....even if they are under your nose, then roll so that your wings are level with THEIR flight path...so they fly from your wing tip to wing tip. Now you have all those windows to track them with and time your shot.

Spraying bullets from one wing tip to the other isn't going to knock a plane out of the sky...well ok it will take the wing off a spit  The trick is to move your plane in the same direction as your target to get your bullets to hit the same spot. In the above set-up with a plane running from your wing tip to wing tip if you just fire off a burst you'll get hits in a line along his plane, if you kick your rudder as you shoot your guns follow his path and you land your hit more in one spot.

The rest is SA (with good views) and timing which takes practice.

[Puma44]

Maybe its because I spend most of my time in bombers. Maybe its because I have an 8 year old Saitek ST290 Pro (twisty rudder). Maybe its because my view angles are not set correctly. Maybe its because I have wireless Satelite.

For whatever the reason, I have a hard time flying fighters both offensively and defensively. I've been playing this game for 3 years. I get my breaks here and there, but overall I have some of the worst luck in this game.

1.) I get put into the tower before I even here the first bullet hit me. Half of my deaths are instant tower or fatal damage.
2.) It doesn't matter what I'm in or at what altitude, the other guy is always both faster and more maneuverable.
3.) Currently, my forward view is only set to look directly down the gunsight. If I ever get into a turn fight, I can never see what my bullets are doing because when I pull lead the engine block/instrument panel covers the target. This never seems to be a problem for other guys, who seem to pull impossible angles where your sure they don't have a solution on you, then - BOOM, DEAD.
4.) Energy is a mystery to me, its almost illogical. I've benzed guys who were TnB'n going over 500 miles an hour, pulled straight up in the vertical, and got shot down by the guy who was low and slow (I stalled first!). Reverse that situation, I've had guys benze me closing at a rate of 1k per second, then all of the sudden pull in with me like my shadow at d400 with every juke I pull.
5.) I fire a lot of rubber bullets. At times I've hit guys with enough >.50 cals to think to myself, "that would have been enough to kill me 5 times over". Most of the time I'll give them a fuel leak, I can never put anyone away.

Before you guys say "review the films", Ive already done that. Its the same old crap. With internet lag on my end, I have no idea how many bullets my opponent had to fire or at what angle he had to truly be at to kill me. Most of the time in film viewer it shows me dying from 1 ping by an opponent nose on with an imaginary point 20 yards behind me.  Rant over, I'm tired and frustrated.

Luck doesn't sound like the issue.  Like Fugitive suggested, spend some time with a trainer/someone who knows the basics, i.e., BFM and get it down solid.

If energy is a mystery, you may benefit from reading up on the "energy egg" concept.  Google it along with BFM and ACM.  Any author who is worth his salt will include the "egg" in his discussion.  Energy management is an essential part of air to air combat. Once you understand the basic concept and practice it, you'll see a big difference in your level of success. BFM and energy management will get you to a guns tracking solution.  

Then, it's a matter of perfecting your aim and laying it to your opponent.  And remember....

Check Six!  


......the guy you are lining up on has a wingman who is converting to your six.  


Oh, and another thing; there isn't much in the way of BFM required to fly bombers.  If your desire is to get better in air to air combat, ya gotta practice a lot. ...and most of all, have fun with it!