Author Topic: the farce has lasted long enough...  (Read 6410 times)

Offline Guppy35

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Re: the farce has lasted long enough...
« Reply #90 on: April 30, 2011, 09:15:48 PM »
No, you can not. The P-51D, as modeled in the game, is physically incapable of sustaining as quick a turn rate or as tight a radius as the SpitXVI can. The only way in which the P-51 is capable of out-turning a Spit16 is if they are both above corner speed and g-limited rather than lift limited,  and the P-51D decelerates more precipitously to its corner velocity. This presumes heavily upon the incomptetence of the Spit driver and is at best a short-lived advantage in any case.

You are (quite willfully, I believe) trying to muddy the issue of hard-wired plane performance with the random factor of pilot skill.

I have probably gotten in more honest-to-God, 1v1 maneuvering fights with Spits and other "turn" aircraft while flying a P-51, P-47, or Fw-190 variant than almost anyone else posting in this discussion.

The other day I engaged a Seafire, who proceeded to go into a series of reversing turns as a defense-an attempt at scissors I suppose. I got off the throttle, put out some flaps, and simply shot him every time he crossed in front of my P-51's nose. If he had performed a rolling scissors instead, I would not have been able to follow. If he had simply slowed his own plane down to minimum speed in the scissors (much lower than that of my plane), I probably could not have stayed in trail. If he simply had sustained a turn in either direction, my nose would have been stuck in lag. It would be innacurate to say this player made gross mistakes-he was competely unaware of the fundamental techniques a dogfighter can make use of, and/or completely ignorant of the relative abilities of his plane and mine. I am NOT insulting whoever it was; Quite probably he has less total time in game than I log in an average week. This is the sort of encounter that leads to entirely specious claims from chest-thumpers about "out-turning" Spits with P-51Ds. This level of incompetence, however, is actually rare, and I expect this player will be quite dangerous in a Spit variant inside of a month's time.

And the bottom line is folks still want to perk what is essentially a 1943 plane because it did things well and was pilot friendly. 

So get rid of it completely and give us a Spitfire XII from 43 or a Spitfire LFIXe with full span wings from 44.  Would that make a difference?  Is it the clipped wing that is such a big deal?  That again is something that they did to Vs, the XII was all clipped wings, IXs, VIIIs and the XVI.  The plane isn't even using the full boost it was using in 45.

You have a game that is essentially a tactical airwar game that has it's air combat flown at the optimal altitude for an LFIX/XVI Spit.  There is a reason they put that engine in it, because the XVI was meant to be used down low.  If you are going to fight down low against an LF Spit, expect it's going to be good.

So are we going to make a list of planes to be perked cause we don't like fighting them?  Let's force everyone into birds that better suit our style of fighting?

There's nothing about a Spit XVI that convinces me we need to perk it.
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Offline Melvin

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Re: the farce has lasted long enough...
« Reply #91 on: April 30, 2011, 09:19:52 PM »
There's nothing about a Spit XVI that convinces me we need to perk it.

^^^ This.

Oh, and they fall apart when you blow a strong fart in the room.
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Offline MaSonZ

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Re: the farce has lasted long enough...
« Reply #92 on: April 30, 2011, 09:26:38 PM »
^^^ This.

Oh, and they fall apart when you blow a strong fart in the room.
:rofl
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Offline guncrasher

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Re: the farce has lasted long enough...
« Reply #93 on: April 30, 2011, 09:37:03 PM »
I do not see anything in that video that is anyway strange. I have done versions of every maneuver in that film in real planes. What you are not seeing in that film is how many times the maneuvers ended very differently.

HiTech

hitech my point was not to say anything was wrong with the game or the plane, but more to demonstrate to  people who when mentioned a maneuver always seem skeptical.  bnz is stuck with the idea that the spit16 is an invincible airplane that somehow gives the average player a more than average skill.  when actually what i find out is that except for a few players, most really gain no edge with it. but like somebody else mention they're more willing to stick around and fight because they think they have an edge.

semp
you dont want me to ho, dont point your plane at me.

Offline MaSonZ

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Re: the farce has lasted long enough...
« Reply #94 on: April 30, 2011, 09:40:55 PM »
I do not see anything in that video that is anyway strange. I have done versions of every maneuver in that film in real planes. What you are not seeing in that film is how many times the maneuvers ended very differently.

HiTech
i wanna do it in real life now...



Damn you HiTech, why do you have to create a game that spawns habbits I can not afford?
 :aok Nice job sir.
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Offline hitech

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Re: the farce has lasted long enough...
« Reply #95 on: April 30, 2011, 10:07:29 PM »
i wanna do it in real life now...



Damn you HiTech, why do you have to create a game that spawns habbits I can not afford?
 :aok Nice job sir.

Why that's simple dear Watson. So I can afford them.

HiTech

Offline Guppy35

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Re: the farce has lasted long enough...
« Reply #96 on: April 30, 2011, 10:13:21 PM »
Why that's simple dear Watson. So I can afford them.

HiTech

Up with the baby I see :)
Dan/CorkyJr
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Offline PFactorDave

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Re: the farce has lasted long enough...
« Reply #97 on: April 30, 2011, 10:19:19 PM »
Why that's simple dear Watson. So I can afford them.

HiTech

Better start saving for college instead don't you think?   ;)

Or, add a dollar to the sub rate now and you'll have a tidy chunk to send daddy's little girl to whatever Ivy League school she wants to go to in 18 years.

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Offline Hajo

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Re: the farce has lasted long enough...
« Reply #98 on: April 30, 2011, 10:36:05 PM »
There is nothing remotely troublesome to me about any spitfire.

If you hit them hard enough they go down also.

I use the antiquated tactic of using what my aircraft gives me and I don't fight against the strengths
of the others.  If I can't dictate the fight, I'll break off and reposition and enter the fray again.
I try to force the opposing Pilot to make an error when fighting a Spit.  I can't turn or climb with him
so I don't for an extended period of time. (In a P47D11)  I'll break, and fight again from an equal
position.

IMHO the only plane that might need perked is the 262.  All others aren't that far apart and ALL
aircraft can be used efficiently and wisely.  Everyone one of them has strengths and weaknesses
that can be exploited.  Formulate a plan....then carry it out.
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Offline kvuo75

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Re: the farce has lasted long enough...
« Reply #99 on: May 01, 2011, 01:45:05 AM »

The other day I engaged a Seafire, ...


perk the spit 16? Or just spitfires in general?


 
kvuo75

Kill the manned ack.

Offline BnZs

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Re: the farce has lasted long enough...
« Reply #100 on: May 01, 2011, 02:54:59 AM »
(In a P47D11)  I'll break, and fight again from an equal
position.

How? The SpitXVI is just as fast at typical MA alts and accelerates far better.

And precisely what WILL you do if you do manage to break away and gain this "equal position"? If the pilot was incompetent enough to loose the angles contest, you would have killed him without having to break away in the first place. You are not going to build an E lead on an aircraft that can climb so much better. So what ARE you going to do? Resort to HOing? Call for friends?
« Last Edit: May 01, 2011, 02:59:39 AM by BnZs »
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Offline BaldEagl

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Re: the farce has lasted long enough...
« Reply #101 on: May 01, 2011, 03:19:52 AM »
As a pony driver, if the spit16 knows what he is doing, what am I supposed to do to beat it?

As a Pony driver you should be much more in fear of the 109K-4 than the Spit XVI.  I know as I fly both a lot.
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Offline Vudu15

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Re: the farce has lasted long enough...
« Reply #102 on: May 01, 2011, 03:21:51 AM »
I just hope they get close enough so I can shoot em with my pistol from my Brewster.  :D :airplane:
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Offline BaldEagl

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Re: the farce has lasted long enough...
« Reply #103 on: May 01, 2011, 03:30:52 AM »
get it below 200 and I can out turn with a pony.

DA to test that theory?
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Offline guncrasher

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Re: the farce has lasted long enough...
« Reply #104 on: May 01, 2011, 03:33:27 AM »
DA to test that theory?

anytime get me an average pilot.

semp
you dont want me to ho, dont point your plane at me.