Nakajima Ki-43 Hayabusa ("Oscar")

[mthrockmor]

Not to weigh into the merits of yes or no on this bird but a technical, historical question.

The firepower on this plane is very inadequate, and was obviously known by the Japanese War Dept (?), evidenced by the fact that later birds had cannons added. Why did they build so many of these birds without increasing the gun package? Were the other Nakajima planes essentially spruced up Oscars, which answers the previous question? Any history you might have would be great.

Thanks in advance!

Boo

[Karnak]

Ki-44 and Ki-84 are most definitely not just spruced up Ki-43s.

[Bino]

Not to weigh into the merits of yes or no on this bird but a technical, historical question.

The firepower on this plane is very inadequate, and was obviously known by the Japanese War Dept (?), evidenced by the fact that later birds had cannons added. Why did they build so many of these birds without increasing the gun package? Were the other Nakajima planes essentially spruced up Oscars, which answers the previous question? Any history you might have would be great.

Thanks in advance!

Boo

This has been covered in great detail elsewhere in this thread, so I'll only summarize, briefly:

The 7mm machine gun was very reliable, and had a high rate of fire.  The 13mm machine "gun" was, technically, a "cannon" because it fired rounds that had fuzes and explosive charges.  However, in RL, the 13mm gun was very unreliable.  Not only did it jam often, but those explosive shells often detonated inside the barrel!  Several Ki-43s were apparently lost due to this flaw!  It was common enough that on at least some Ki-43s a slab of iron armor was placed *underneath* the gun in order to protect the engine.  Talk about quality control issues...

As for other Nakajima fighter planes, they were not much like the Ki-43 Hayabusa ("Oscar").  

The Ki-44 Shoki ("Tojo") was a point-defense interceptor optimized for climb rate and speed.  

The Ki-84 Hayate ("Frank") was a late-war monster which, despite miserable quality control problems on the production lines, could give both the P-51D and the P-47D a run for their money.

EDIT: (The Ki-61 was not a Nakajima plane, per the post by Karnak)
The Kawasaki Ki-61 Hien ("Tony") was one of the very few IJA planes to use a liquid-cooled inline engine.  The Ki-61-II used an uprated version of the license-built Aichi copy of the Daimler-Benz DB601, but quality control was so bad that it often suffered catastrophic *crankshaft* failures on takeoff!  <shudder!>

[tmetal]

I have also read that another reason the Ki-43s used 7mm guns was because the IJA command were more interested in the ground war and felt that army airpower was second fiddle; and rather than spend the time and money to develop better aerial gun platforms, they felt that superior marksmanship would make up for the small caliber gun package.

[Butcher]

Apparently, it was the most common Japanese Army Air Force fighter of WWII and had the most victories in the JAAF. It's like the TIE fighter of WWII really.

You mean it blows up on first contact with any size stray bullets?

[Karnak]

The Ki-43-II and Ki-43-III were both armed with two of the 12.7mm guns.  The 12.7mm guns are the same as those on the Ki-61 and Ki-84 in AH.

Bino,

The Ki-61 was a Kawasaki product, not a Nakajima product.

*Subaru is the post-war name for Nakajima.

[Bino]

The Ki-43-II and Ki-43-III were both armed with two of the 12.7mm guns.  The 12.7mm guns are the same as those on the Ki-61 and Ki-84 in AH.

Bino,

The Ki-61 was a Kawasaki product, not a Nakajima product.

*Subaru is the post-war name for Nakajima.

Oops!  My bad!

[Slade]

Ki-43-II and Ki-43-III were both armed with two of the 12.7mm guns

FYI...

I fly the C202 regularly and its guns are similar to the above.  I have no problem shooting down planes in it.  Storches to P-47s.  I set the convergence to 275 and do not fire until target is 400 or less.  The Ki-43 when introduced will be an effective bird if flown to its strengths.

Can't wait!!!  

[Ack-Ack]

I have also read that another reason the Ki-43s used 7mm guns was because the IJA command were more interested in the ground war and felt that army airpower was second fiddle; and rather than spend the time and money to develop better aerial gun platforms, they felt that superior marksmanship would make up for the small caliber gun package.

The reason why the IJAAF went with the 7mm machine guns is that they believed those guns were sufficient enough against any plane they were likely to face based on their experiences in China.  

ack-ack

[tmetal]

Right, but even after being presented with the effects of the superior firepower of opponents like the Brewster and the I-16, the Ki-43 was only eventually upgraded to twin 13mm (in large numbers), when the majority of the Ki-43s fighter opponents where flying gun packages of at least four .30cals or .50cals. The IJAAF commanders never really felt they needed to beef up the hitting power of their army airforce planes until later in the war. Preferring to rely on the superior marksmanship of their pilots, which is an ok strategy unless you start to lose your experienced pilots and are being forced to put greener and greener (to coin a phrase) recruits in the cockpit.  I guess what I am saying is that the Ki-43 always seemed to lag behind its opponents in terms of weight of firepower, and imho this is due in part to the IJA commanders not placing a proper amount of importance on army airforce R&D in order to at least stay abreast of their enemies capabilities.

...and just so my position is clear on the Oscar in AH; +100. This plane should be the next plane added right after they finish with the 410

[Peyton]

Ki-43 was the primary Japanese Army fighter throughout the war.  Lets just say, by leaving it out, it's like leaving the P40 out of the USAAF line up.

+1 add to all

[Peyton]

Right, but even after being presented with the effects of the superior firepower of opponents like the Brewster and the I-16, the Ki-43 was only eventually upgraded to twin 13mm (in large numbers), when the majority of the Ki-43s fighter opponents where flying gun packages of at least four .30cals or .50cals. The IJAAF commanders never really felt they needed to beef up the hitting power of their army airforce planes until later in the war. Preferring to rely on the superior marksmanship of their pilots, which is an ok strategy unless you start to lose your experienced pilots and are being forced to put greener and greener (to coin a phrase) recruits in the cockpit.  I guess what I am saying is that the Ki-43 always seemed to lag behind its opponents in terms of weight of firepower, and imho this is due in part to the IJA commanders not placing a proper amount of importance on army airforce R&D in order to at least stay abreast of their enemies capabilities.

...and just so my position is clear on the Oscar in AH; +100. This plane should be the next plane added right after they finish with the 410

+2

[HighTone]

                                                           +3   

[Raptor05121]

I'm all for more jap planes. I love poking holes in them

[HighTone]

I'm all for more jap planes. I love poking holes in them

Either way...for me to fly and for you to shoot. Works out for both