F3 view and the il2

[IrishOne]

can't agree there either irish...you're talking about cutting off the nose to spite the face...all twin and quad engine bombers have restricted views from the pilots seat...aside from the b26 and a20 none of the bombers have enough guns that can be fired from the cockpit to be a real threat to a 300+ mph late war fighter...and none of them have enough maneuverability to be a real threat...people who get shot down by the 7.9mm guns on the ju-88 got stupid at some point.

every view you need is already available in bombers.   you want a dead 6 view??  jump to your tailgun.   you want i straight down look from a lancaster?  too bad, it didnt have a ball turret.  F3 should be disabled in all airborne aircraft.   this would decrease the number of lancstuka or dive bombing b17 idiots you'd see as well

[JUGgler]

Gentlemen, the simplest expedient is to retain F3 mode but remove the ability fire guns in it.

This really does nothing as it has been said many times over in previous threads that many folks use F3 merely for SA then switch to cockpit for the actual shot. In planes like the A20 and IL2 the shot can be 1K plus so switching to be able to shoot changes nothing, I would agree with this idea IF there was a delay of say 2-4 seconds before your guns would be active after switching view.


I have conflicting thoughts on F3

#1- I don't think it should have been changed untill something could be done about base hording!

#2- If you're gonna have some "historical standard" for certain planes you should have it for all.

If it is possible "maybe not likely, maybe not succesful" but possible to fly any plane as a "fighter" F3 should be removed for it.


It makes little sense to take a plane with poor visibility and give it better vis than a pony has just because it is hard to see out of


Poor views were a "real" handicap for many planes and should stay that way. If not then please change the 6 view in the P39, P39 is outclassed by most of the plane set so F3 or a good rear view should be added for it  


No matter how you spin  it is the same argument  



JUGgler

[gyrene81]

Funny how cobia38 out flys most fighters in the A-20, yet it still has f3, while GHI's IL-2 doesn't.. Guess cobia isn't killing the AH sacred cows like G did.

if you're silly enough to fight cobia in his a20 on his terms, he will eat you alive with it...i learned that the hard way.

every view you need is already available in bombers.   you want a dead 6 view??  jump to your tailgun.   you want i straight down look from a lancaster?  too bad, it didnt have a ball turret.  F3 should be disabled in all airborne aircraft.   this would decrease the number of lancstuka or dive bombing b17 idiots you'd see as well

ju-88 and a20 do not have the 6 view that b-17, lancaster, b-29, ki-67, g4m, and all of the single seaters do...there aren't that many dive bombing heavy bombers anymore, unless it's bish doing it...and it can be done just as well without f3 mode as it can with it.

if there was a constant full crew on the aircraft then...sure kill f3 even on the bombers.

[IrishOne]

if there was a constant full crew on the aircraft then...sure kill f3 even on the bombers.

there was a crew that could that place themselves 400 feet outside of their plane and rotate that view 360 degrees in any direction, up or down??     hitting "4" to take you to the tailgun (or whatever the tailgun button happens to be in the plane you are flying) takes a quarter of a second.  the internal views in a bomber should be the only views you are afforded.   otherwise have a friend gun for you.  if you can't get one, your plane will fly itself for you while you gun!  promise

[JUGgler]

Funny how cobia38 out flys most fighters in the A-20, yet it still has f3, while GHI's IL-2 doesn't.. Guess cobia isn't killing the AH sacred cows like G did.

HAHA  sacred cows like cherrying and vulching 


I think cobia would be less succesfull without F3, that is a no brainer. I like cobia and he is a excellent fight unfortunately it would be less of a fight without F3 so the F3 matters much. Cobia I believe is one of those guys who uses F3 for SA and switches to shoot, I believe I'm correct on this!




JUGgler

[YGSM]

Funny how cobia38 out flys most fighters in the A-20, yet it still has f3, while GHI's IL-2 doesn't.. Guess cobia isn't killing the AH sacred cows like G did.

I think you nailed it HOtard.  He was killing to many of the elite pilots and had to be castrated.  Even a game has its "Elite Pilots" out there that can not be touched and if they get owned too much they need a game changer.  To bad.

[IrishOne]

I think you nailed it HOtard.  He was killing to many of the elite pilots and had to be castrated.  Even a game has its "Elite Pilots" out there that can not be touched and if they get owned too much they need a game changer.  To bad.

you seemed to have completely missed the point

[The Fugitive]

I think you nailed it HOtard.  He was killing to many of the elite pilots and had to be castrated.  Even a game has its "Elite Pilots" out there that can not be touched and if they get owned too much they need a game changer.  To bad.

SAPP decided that if they couldn't use F3, then G couldn't. So let it be written, so let it be done!

[YGSM]

you seemed to have completely missed the point

Really!?!  so why the F3 mode on the A-20.  I know plenty that can furball with the A-20 and use F3 as a crutch.  Seems fair to me! 

[gyrene81]

there was a crew that could that place themselves 400 feet outside of their plane and rotate that view 360 degrees in any direction, up or down??     hitting "4" to take you to the tailgun (or whatever the tailgun button happens to be in the plane you are flying) takes a quarter of a second.  the internal views in a bomber should be the only views you are afforded.   otherwise have a friend gun for you.  if you can't get one, your plane will fly itself for you while you gun!  promise

talk about missing the point...come on irish...i'm guessing you haven't flown an 88 or a20 in so long you don't know there is no tail gun, nor is there a co-pilot view. scratch 2 viewing zones.

some of you guys need to look beyond the end of the nose...if the 400 yards 360 view of f3 is what's bothering you, then ask to change the way it works...shorten the range that it can be zoomed or something like that...getting rid of it on medium bombers just because you got dumb trying to dog fight them is just lame.

[IrishOne]

Really!?!  so why the F3 mode on the A-20.  I know plenty that can furball with the A-20 and use F3 as a crutch.  Seems fair to me! 

perhaps i've missed your point......seemed like you were saying some of the better sticks want to do away with F3 because they dont like getting killed by F3 users, and that it was too bad for them, F3 was a good thing.    clarify, please

[IrishOne]

talk about missing the point...come on irish...i'm guessing you haven't flown an 88 or a20 in so long you don't know there is no tail gun, nor is there a co-pilot view. scratch 2 viewing zones.

some of you guys need to look beyond the end of the nose...if the 400 yards 360 view of f3 is what's bothering you, then ask to change the way it works...shorten the range that it can be zoomed or something like that...getting rid of it on medium bombers just because you got dumb trying to dog fight them is just lame.

 

if there is no tailgun, that means there is no one looking behind you!  THAT IS MY POINT!!!   if there was no dead 6 view in the plane in RL, why should you be able to look behind you?  you shouldn't have a view where there wasn't one.  you aren't missing the point, you are blatantly ignoring it.   

[Beefcake]

If you're flying a fighter and dying in a dogfight vs some of these medium bombers then it sounds like whining about F3 view is the least of your problems.

[Beefcake]

Corrected.

I want to be able to jump bombers and kill them with little threat.

[lyric1]

 how many accounts of dogfighting bombers are there really?  besides SBD's and other single engine close air support aircraft.

Well since we are on Il-2's here is a list of air to air kills with Russian bombers & if you scroll through there appears to be a number done with said aircraft. It looks like a few of these pilots were quite good at it & were ace's as well. So not that rare for those who learned how back in the day.

http://www.wio.ru/aces/aceb2.htm