F3 view and the il2

[JUGgler]

C-47



wrongway

The "purist" would agree 




JUGgler

[JUGgler]

What about the TBM, SBD, D3A and Ju-87? Nix f3 in all of those forward facing gun a/c too?

                                       Y E S  !




JUGgler

[Changeup]

I don't care how many people subject themselves to an extreme disadvantage, in fact I mock them.  You can't fight in F3 mode.  Can you seriously argue that it's an advantage to duel that way?

Are you throwing out bait here?  Seriously...Trac IR, when properly setup and configured IS virtual F3 mode minus the ability to aim at objects under the nose.  Come now Grizz old boy....you know better.  I will repeat your argument...just because you find F3 underachiever mode doesn't mean it doesn't improve SA and allow improbable shots.  JUGgler won't argue with you because you're squad mates now but he knows better....besides, I'm still waiting on my date you promised me.  You treat all your ankle humpers this bad or are you just playing hard to get with me???? Jk

Change up

[Babalonian]

What about the TBM, SBD, D3A and Ju-87? Nix f3 in all of those forward facing gun a/c too?

Likely not, pea shooters compared to the one-shot 37mm.

[crazyivan]

Nerf the A20 leave my stuka alone! Or better yet give das stuka 20mm and ja you can remove f3.

[Kingpin]

Could this be coded to perhaps make the availabiltiy of F3 mode for bombers tied to ALT? 

I’ve noticed you can turn on F3 while on the ground (in any AC), but once you take off it goes off.  Is this coding tied to being AGL?

If so, it might be easy to code F3 mode to be only available ABOVE a certain alt.  For example, a Lancaster pilot flying ABOVE 3K has F3 mode available to see around the airplane for defensive purposes.  Once the Lanc pilot drops below 3K, F3 mode is disabled.   It seems most of the abuse/gaming of F3 mode happens at low alt, such as the Lanc-stuka silliness and dog-fighting A-20 and IL-2s.  I even saw a guy dog-fighting against a B-26 on the deck the other night.  The B-26 was clearly using F3 mode to scissors, force an overshoot and roll back to attempt a shot with his front guns.  Impressive, but gamey as heck.

With no F3 below 3K, I think you’d see considerably less abuse of it in bombers, while retaining the defensive nature of F3 for the bomber flying at alt.  I think you could even put the IL-2 back in the bomber hanger if you wanted to.

My vote: Simply make F3 mode turn off below 3K.

[Shuffler]

This really does not affect me one way or the other but....

Why not allow the IL to be a bomber with no forward firing guns and F3 or, if one so choses, let them up with forward firing guns and no F3 as fighter.

I know that is not historical but for game sake it might work.

Opinions?

[Beefcake]

I say we just leave the system as it is and all of you fighter pilots learn how to fight instead of whining when you get owned by a bomber in a dogfight. 

[YGSM]

I say we just leave the system as it is and all of you fighter pilots learn how to fight instead of whining when you get owned by a bomber in a dogfight. 

It took 11 pages of comments to finnally see something that makes sense.  lol

[Babalonian]

I thikn we should leave it as is after this most recent change.  Looking towards the future and the intorduction of other aircraft that could also be sitting on the fence with this issue (light-bombers/heavy-fighters), it's best to adopt and stick to a standard.

[lyric1]

Going to have to work out the views on this thing it is just about useless while trying to evade a fighter looking around with current mapped views. I can see why though usage has dropped right off with this aircraft in it's current configuration.

I think this & any other aircraft up for consideration for the F3 mode deletion package may want to be fine tuned some how?

[grizz441]

Are you throwing out bait here?  Seriously...Trac IR, when properly setup and configured IS virtual F3 mode minus the ability to aim at objects under the nose.  Come now Grizz old boy....you know better.  I will repeat your argument...just because you find F3 underachiever mode doesn't mean it doesn't improve SA and allow improbable shots.  JUGgler won't argue with you because you're squad mates now but he knows better....besides, I'm still waiting on my date you promised me.  You treat all your ankle humpers this bad or are you just playing hard to get with me???? Jk

Change up

I really don't think it provides any advantage in a fair fight, and negligible advantage in the pray and spray.  It can help for SA in a view impaired aircraft however.  Imo though, F3 whines are just a scapegoat for suckage.

[IrishOne]

 Seriously...Trac IR, when properly setup and configured IS virtual F3 mode minus the ability to aim at objects under the nose.  Change up

real pilots didnt have to push a hat switch to turn their heads          THEY TURNED THEIR HEADS!!     how does trackIR work again?   oh thats right.....you turn your head.     it is NOT virtual F3 mode because, well, you stay in the cockpit       

[JUGgler]

Are you throwing out bait here?  Seriously...Trac IR, when properly setup and configured IS virtual F3 mode minus the ability to aim at objects under the nose.  Come now Grizz old boy....you know better.  I will repeat your argument...just because you find F3 underachiever mode doesn't mean it doesn't improve SA and allow improbable shots.  JUGgler won't argue with you because you're squad mates now but he knows better....besides, I'm still waiting on my date you promised me.  You treat all your ankle humpers this bad or are you just playing hard to get with me???? Jk

Change up

I think I know better about what I know better about  Seriously do you go lockstep with wastin on all things? Just because I joined the muptards don't paint me as something I'm not 


I will clarify my thoughts on F3 view:

#1- I think it is cheesy and it doesn't quite fit the game for me

#2- I do not think it helps in a duel. ( It may benefit some mediocre dude who is fighting a mediocre dude with the "below the nose" opportunity) but that has more to do with SA than the actual shot. I doubt it matters much to "top knotch" players

#3 I DO think it helps immensly in the MA in a multi tard environment.

#4- I DO think it is easy to shoot from F3 view, quite easy!

#5- I think the evidence in the stats for the IL2 show most folks used it and think F3 is very helpfull and very easy. In previous threads many folks said F3 "doesn't matter, they don't use it, they can't shoot from it, they only use it for SA etc. etc." The stats have proved most of this rubbish.

#6- I think the stats show the IL2 is much more difficult without F3.

#7- I would argue with anyone if I thought I was correct!


I use F3 for miraculous Boston flying, FU88 flying, A20 flying etc. etc. F3 provides the most outstanding SA available for any ride,. It gives you the BEST "real time" picture of everything around you, and for this reason I think it is gamey as h3ll. When I put my "purist cap" on I think it should be removed. When I'm wearing my "improve everyone elses score silly cap" on I use it and thrive with it.


I'll tell you this IF HTC ever puts a good gun on the JU88 the cries for F3 to be removed from it will be deafening 


I think it has a place for BOMBERS with NO fwd fixed firing guns, and that is it!

 


 


JUGgler

[E25280]

#5- I think the evidence in the stats for the IL2 show most folks used it and think F3 is very helpfull and very easy. In previous threads many folks said F3 "doesn't matter, they don't use it, they can't shoot from it, they only use it for SA etc. etc." The stats have proved most of this rubbish.

I think the fact that you can no longer up the IL-2 for base deffence when the fighter hangers are down may have been another factor in it's declining usage. I've seen a swarm of them stop what should have been a clean base capture several times. Would have liked to have seen how well they fared in this role without F3.

This +100

I tried to take an IL-2 up in base defense where the FHs were down, and couldn't.  It surprised and disappointed me.  Base defense when FHs were down was probably half or more of my sorties in it.  Now that it isn't an option (which is completely ridiculous, it is a bomber, i.e. an airplane designed to hit ground targets, and not a fighter, i.e. an airplane designed for air superiority), I won't have the same reasons/opportunities to fly it.

None of the remaining bombers are very suitable for base defense under horde conditions.  Most simply don't have sufficient hitting power to start evening the odds, and the ones that kind of do like the A-20 or B-25, are even larger and more lumbering at low speeds than the brick IL-2.

Oh, and P.S.

I really don't think it provides any advantage in a fair fight, and negligible advantage in the pray and spray.  It can help for SA in a view impaired aircraft however.  Imo though, F3 whines are just a scapegoat for suckage.