Author Topic: Blah Blah netlag...blah...netlag..blah blah blah.  (Read 556 times)

Offline icepac

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Blah Blah netlag...blah...netlag..blah blah blah.
« on: May 22, 2011, 12:16:04 PM »
Netlag as an excuse for not being able to explain a phenomenom in Aces High is way overused.

I did some testing against buffs this week flying in formation with the enemy buff at D1500 until they eventually shot me down.

I flew line abreast maintaining same heading as the bomber and slowly eased on his wing until "1.5 " displayed with neither + or - sign for an extended period of time and just let the bomber tee off on me with his 50 caliber guns.

I did the same thing by flying dead 12 o'clock (much harder to keep consistent separation) and found the same results in my being killed by the 50 caliber guns.

Since there was very little closure rate (if any at all), then netlag can not be used to explain why the allied guns can kill at 1500 yards shooting forward or to the side.

It was also very difficult to find someone who could hit me flying abreast but I did find a player that had no trouble at all which leads me to believe there is a huge difference in shooting ability between players here.

That said.....is the 12.7 japanese or german bullet modeled in game to disappear beyond the 750 yard mark?
« Last Edit: May 22, 2011, 12:19:55 PM by icepac »

Offline BnZs

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Re: Blah Blah netlag...blah...netlag..blah blah blah.
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2011, 12:24:55 PM »
Hitting a fighter aircraft sized target at 1500 yards would be fairly elite shooting even if one were squeezing off single shots from a scoped weapon on an absolutely stable platform with a ballistics computer at hand, much less with iron sights from a flex mounted machine gun on a moving aircraft sailing the sea of air...
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Offline Lusche

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Re: Blah Blah netlag...blah...netlag..blah blah blah.
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2011, 12:25:12 PM »
Something to consider: The MG 131 is firing a 38g projectile at 710 m/s, the .50 cal a 43g bullet at 890. That's resulting not only about 80% more kinetic energy for the .50 cal, but also in very different ballistic traits
So do not expect them to act the same, because they aren't. They just happen to have almost the same bullet diameter, but are very different in performance. As for AH damage, the .50 cal does about 30% more damage at the muzzle.

« Last Edit: May 22, 2011, 12:40:11 PM by Lusche »
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Offline The Fugitive

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Re: Blah Blah netlag...blah...netlag..blah blah blah.
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2011, 12:41:20 PM »
...and what are you complaining about? That the ballistics of guns are different and so modeled that way?

Offline icepac

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Re: Blah Blah netlag...blah...netlag..blah blah blah.
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2011, 01:00:14 PM »
Made an observation that a buff 50 caliber can kill a me110 flying beside it at 1500 meters.

My question is whether this was possible in real life.

I added a question on whether the ho103 disappears after 750 yards in game or whether it's trajectory just falls off.

I apologize for removing the ability to throw the time honored "netlag excuse" and the fact that is leaves many without an answer.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2011, 01:09:29 PM by icepac »

Offline gyrene81

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Re: Blah Blah netlag...blah...netlag..blah blah blah.
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2011, 01:25:25 PM »
icepac, it's not meters bud...it's yards. and yes, the m2 browning was/is capable of tearing stuff up out to 1500 yards. of course, bomber crews seldom took shots that far out for many reasons...

i think lusche has the .50 caliber standard api weight and velocity off a little...i'm seeing 45.94g and ~949m/s for standard api m2 ammo...but i'm not sure that's ww2 standards.
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Offline Lusche

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Re: Blah Blah netlag...blah...netlag..blah blah blah.
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2011, 01:25:28 PM »
Made an observation that a buff 50 caliber can kill a me110 flying beside it at 1500 meters.

My question is whether this was possible in real life.

I added a question on whether the ho103 disappears after 750 yards in game or whether it's trajectory just falls off.


These things are pretty easy to find out, offline or in any arena, with the use of the .target command. Up a 109, a P51, a Ki-84 and a B-17 and see at what ranges hots do still register. With the bomber make sure to check for shooting into different directions.
I know that both the German MG 131 and the .50cal do register hits up to about 1000 yards when shot forward, and for longer distances (about 1200 yards) when shot to the rear.

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Offline hitech

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Re: Blah Blah netlag...blah...netlag..blah blah blah.
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2011, 01:30:05 PM »
You do know AH shows yards not meters?

Bullets do not have a max distance, they have a max time of flight.

This means that as you fly higher or lower, the max ranges change.

If you shoot forward or back the ranges change.

Flying faster shortens the effective range.

Shooting back, do to less drag on the bullet, substantially increases the effective range.

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Offline mtnman

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Re: Blah Blah netlag...blah...netlag..blah blah blah.
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2011, 01:36:15 PM »
Made an observation that a buff 50 caliber can kill a me110 flying beside it at 1500 meters.

My question is whether this was possible in real life.

I added a question on whether the ho103 disappears after 750 yards in game or whether it's trajectory just falls off.

I apologize for removing the ability to throw the time honored "netlag excuse" and the fact that is leaves many without an answer.

Been here roughly 10 years, and this is the first time I've heard netlag used as an argument for long-range shooting.  Regardless, netlag doesn't factor into the range that your guns are effective, so it's a misinformed excuse anyway.  The fact is, your computer keeps track of your rounds.  If your computer registers your bullets hitting your opponent, he takes hits, regardless of what his computer "thinks".  He could "see" your bullets miss, fall short, whatever, it doesn't matter.  He'll still take hits, because your computer will tell him to...

You'll get a more accurate measure of maximum range if you use the .target.  D1500 isn't a "tight" enough measurement to accurately draw conclusions from (it's actually a 500yd wide window).

Stick it out there at 1000 (or whatever) yards, and shoot it.  You'll see holes.  Move it in/out at 100yd increments, and you'll eventually see that you'll stop making holes...

One thing you'll find is that the maximum range that you can score hits on the .target will vary with altitude.  The maximum range for one particular gun isn't the same at 1000ft as it is at 10,000ft.

Go check the HO103.  See what you find.

One way netlag may effect apparent ranges is when you have a plane directly behind you (chasing you).  He'll "see" you a little behind where you really are (so you're a bit closer to him than you think).  Also, you'll "see" him a little behind where he really is (so he's a bit closer to you than you think, again).  The result is that the guy behind you is (a little) closer than he appears.  

Don't you hate it when you put a title like this one on a thread, and then get factual answers?
« Last Edit: May 22, 2011, 01:38:43 PM by mtnman »
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Offline icepac

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Re: Blah Blah netlag...blah...netlag..blah blah blah.
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2011, 04:41:51 PM »
this is a "no netlag thread"....it's relevence was removed with the first post.\

thanks for hipping me to the "target command" as it will reduce my gunnery questions to nothing.