Remove zoom from aircraft sight picture (front view)

[gyrene81]

Then for zoom in it you use a commander binoculars?

lol...  ...if you want to seriously limit your field of view at 500 yards from what it currently is, you go right ahead and grab those ww2 era binoculars.

personally limiting the zoom to a more realistic level without the extreme magnification wouldn't bother me...





there is no way i'm going to lean forward enough to stick my eyeball on the gunsight of an airplane...

[bustr]

In real life the Revi3/C12/16 graticule ring was 50mm when projected onto the reflector plate. Zoom in until the ring is 50mm in diameter using a ruler against your LCD. Now your cartoon pilot's eye view is aproximently 17.5 inches away from the graticule if you were sitting in the cockpit. Oh, and those openings around your Revi C/12 C graticule center are a 2m diameter at 100m. And the opening in the verticle line is a B17 rudder at 600m. Or supposed to be.

[iron650]

lol...   ...if you want to seriously limit your field of view at 500 yards from what it currently is, you go right ahead and grab those ww2 era binoculars.

personally limiting the zoom to a more realistic level without the extreme magnification wouldn't bother me...

I meant for the naval guns and tanks. Was the guy in your gunsights a guy named iron61 and piloted a P-51B? Just asking...    Anyway, I agree to limiting the view of the zoom. The zoom is extremely crazy. In fact, I never really zoom in because of their extreme zoom. (Besides in the naval guns.)

[Raphael]

-1, you cant represent the human eye view in one 2d screen, if the game is here to be realistic you gotta have the zoom and the icons to make up for the limitations a small 2d screen has relative to the human eye. now on tanks it is realistic because the sighs in those tanks didnt have zoom on the scope and when you are in the comanders position or driver, you are in the same limitation as in the airplane so you have zoom there also.

[321BAR]

I don't USE zoom, because I PLAY the game, not GAME the game.

fug... the zoom is to allow a realistic 1:1 ratio of sight. aka what we would see in real life...

[Lusche]

-1, you cant represent the human eye view in one 2d screen, if the game is here to be realistic you gotta have the zoom and the icons to make up for the limitations a small 2d screen has relative to the human eye. now on tanks it is realistic because the sighs in those tanks didnt have zoom on the scope and when you are in the comanders position or driver, you are in the same limitation as in the airplane so you have zoom there also.

The gunsights had "zoom", i.e. magnification: The Panzer IV for example was using the TZF % with a 2.5x magnification - yet it has the same level of magnification in AH as any pilot, which is supposed to represent 1:1.  


From another thread:

From a P-38 cockpit


From tank commander's position


from Panzer IV gunsight


All views at max zoom, and at same distance

[gyrene81]

I meant for the naval guns and tanks. Was the guy in your gunsights a guy named iron61 and piloted a P-51B?

no iron, those screenies were done offline...the first shot is 2 clicks less than default zoom 190a8 at ~800 yards...second shot is max zoom p-47 at ~400 yds.

[Debrody]

-1
in an aircraft, its completely impossible to aim if i use too much zoom (at leas for me). In the 109 i always can see the MG's ammo counter.
But if i dont use zoom, its also real hard to aim couse this 22inch monitor is representing your eyes full, about 140 degrees wide sight of view, extremely limiting the details you are still able to see.

[dirtdart]

When you play in the AvA, there are no enemy icons.  It makes the play challenging, and you must have your head on a swivel to stay alive.  That degree of difficulty is approriate for that group.  You choose to play with those settings in that arena.  The MA is different.  It has to have a degree of "training wheels" to promote new users and folks with lessers systems.  Some of these settings are abused by more experienced players to gain an advantage over others, such as dialing down graphics in GV mode to see more. 

I am struggling to accept this notion of realism, which is why this post is in the "Wishlist" forum.  My wish is for the community to poop or get off the pot as it were with what you find acceptable.  We have long term players lauding the GV site modeling, because it is "real", but at the same time I can build a gunsight for an airplane which allows me to aim munitions with a higher degree of accuracy.  I can zoom in the gunner position of a B17 and nail 1000 yd head shots....because that is ok.

Why do we laud realism and at the same time laud unrealistic things?  Where do you draw the line?

Please discuss.   

[Krusty]

Dirtdart, don't start that self-massaging crap about icons being easy mode crutches and real men fly without icons.

That's BS and you've been shown this by many many experts and real life pilots. Your ignorance and blind devotion to the idea you're so good and awesome because you like to fly without icons is nothing other than an ego boosting exercise.

You would do well to search for the many long and thoroughly argued discussions on this forum alone, and read up on the issue. Hopefully you will lose some of your egotistic opinions on the matter.'



EDIT: Turns out it's not a new GV whine, it's the same old BS "remove icons!" whine/wish in disguise.

[gyrene81]

In real life the Revi3/C12/16 graticule ring was 50mm when projected onto the reflector plate. Zoom in until the ring is 50mm in diameter using a ruler against your LCD. Now your cartoon pilot's eye view is aproximently 17.5 inches away from the graticule if you were sitting in the cockpit. Oh, and those openings around your Revi C/12 C graticule center are a 2m diameter at 100m. And the opening in the verticle line is a B17 rudder at 600m. Or supposed to be.

uh buster...that's cool info, might help me shoot better with the information but...wouldn't zooming to that 50mm size on a 22 inch monitor would be more zoom than it would be on a 42 inch monitor?

[dirtdart]

Dirtdart, don't start that self-massaging crap about icons being easy mode crutches and real men fly without icons.

That's BS and you've been shown this by many many experts and real life pilots. Your ignorance and blind devotion to the idea you're so good and awesome because you like to fly without icons is nothing other than an ego boosting exercise.

You would do well to search for the many long and thoroughly argued discussions on this forum alone, and read up on the issue. Hopefully you will lose some of your egotistic opinions on the matter.'



EDIT: Turns out it's not a new GV whine, it's the same old BS "remove icons!" whine/wish in disguise.

Krusty..before you jump in guns blazing, re-read the post.  I think I have spent 3 hours total in the AvA since I stated flying years ago.  Mostly had to do with my system was weak and not seeing things is what prevented me from enjoying the flying.  "When you play in the AvA...you have to have your head on a swivel".  Yep, thats some self absorbed stuff there....jackwagon.  

Your personal attack and character assasination attempt just reinforces my long held belief that the more you "active" guys post, the less credible you become.  Lets take your overloaded P-47 argument.  You get uppity because it did not, (edit: also your the P-51 did not carry rockets and bombs at the same time) HTC responds, true, but it could so why not.  You want to defend realism on ammo count, but not a 30 power eye ball in an airplane.  Who is the self absorbed hypocrite here?  

Remove icons....pfft.  Were it not for icons I would spend the day in the tower.  

[Wiley]

I am struggling to accept this notion of realism, which is why this post is in the "Wishlist" forum.  My wish is for the community to poop or get off the pot as it were with what you find acceptable.

Ask 20 people about 'what they find acceptable' you'll get 25 different answers if you ask twice.

We have long term players lauding the GV site modeling, because it is "real", but at the same time I can build a gunsight for an airplane which allows me to aim munitions with a higher degree of accuracy.  I can zoom in the gunner position of a B17 and nail 1000 yd head shots....because that is ok.

Why do we laud realism and at the same time laud unrealistic things?  Where do you draw the line?

Please discuss.   

What's that tremendously unrealistic about the zoom on the monitor, if you look at it in terms of a 'typical' setup?

Take, for example, a 21" flatscreen sitting a 2 1/2 feet from your eyes.  At maximum zoom in the aircraft that's pretty close to a life size view of the gunsight if you were to put your head in a bag that had a monitor-sized and shaped hole at one end of it a couple feet away.  It's maybe not precise, but it's not like putting a bloody sniper scope on your plane.  It's maybe out by 10-20% depending on how far from your eyes your monitor is.

Now sure, if you put a 42" screen the same distance from you, now it's out of whack at maximum zoom.  You can't optimize the views for the guy with the 42" screen 2 feet from his head.

It's set up to be somewhat reasonable, with the 'gamey' benefit of the ability to zoom out so you have some peripheral vision because it would be nearly impossible to play if your monitor view was at 1:1 like you were looking through a monitor-sized window at the world.

As to the 2.5x zoom on the tank sight, that seems a bit off to me if one accepts that max zoom in a plane is quasi-1x.  Seems to me it should be 2.5x the zoom-in on the aircraft zoom.  In other words, I agree with the Snail.

Wiley.

[dirtdart]

Yup Wiley, snail makes a great point.  It would be very interesting to see if the airplane guys would be as receptive to it as the GVrs have had to be. 

[bustr]

uh buster...that's cool info, might help me shoot better with the information but...wouldn't zooming to that 50mm size on a 22 inch monitor would be more zoom than it would be on a 42 inch monitor?

Reflector glass on all versions is about 2x the ring diameter. Move your FOV in until you have that. Create a new Revi in 512x512 mode with a 100mil ring. Mount that in your 109's and 190's. Then move your default FOV forward to make the ring about 1/2 the width of the glass. That will give you a 50mm ring on glass that is about 90-110mm wide. Then zoom is not as much of a factor unless you want to use the stadia marks for degrees of deflection.

I find zooming at the last moment to make the ring about 50mm on my screen makes using the ring and stadia marks work like the manual says they will work. Otherwise at default FOV you are pecking away at something your cross hairs and ring covers up unless you use a dot only.

Wonder if a 42inch LCD gives you more of a 1:1 in your default FOV looking through the gunsight?? Try opening your Revi gunsight in your art program and zooming in on it until the ring meaures 50mm with a hand held ruler up to the LCD panel. Then move your face until it's 17.5 inches from the LCD panel. Now you have the same FOV german pilots did in their cockpits of their Revi gunsight. The british distance was 16.5 inches and the ring was 60mm.

How Is Your Periferal Vision Now??