Author Topic: Great new ideas for strategic evolution of game  (Read 4414 times)

Offline Lusche

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Re: Great new ideas for strategic evolution of game
« Reply #105 on: June 01, 2011, 04:30:49 PM »
. but i think what may be the simplest to do is to alter the score sys a little. first i think that all stats to do with time should be eleminated this would discourage vulching and spawn camping

I think this is one example of a good intended idea with not all consequences being considered :)

Yes, vulching gives you a high k/h and thus is good for score. But on the other hand, getting completely rid of a time based scoring stat also promotes extreme timidness. Someone packing full fuel in his pony and flying for 60 minutes, engaging only from a position of absolute safety will currently have a high k/D, but an absolute lousy k/h, and thus a bad rank (many player really overestimate k/d in the current system).
If you eliminate the time aspect, there is no "need" to rush anything, ever. Get one kill on a helpless victim, fly home, refuel, look for another "perfect" victim...

I am one of those "safety" fliers, with my worst scoring category always being K/H. I can never get a fighter top rank because I'm generally not aggressive and reckless enough, too much combat avoiding. If your proposal would be implemented, my rank would improve a lot, I could even think of getting #1 in fighters for the first time ever.
Do you really want that? ;)
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Offline SmokinLoon

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Re: Great new ideas for strategic evolution of game
« Reply #106 on: June 01, 2011, 04:46:41 PM »
I wonder if there is a way for HTC to assign further ID tags to the aircraft programming?

It is too bad we dont see scoring based on a similar system like the perk point system: if a player does nothing but fly a Spit16, La7, Tempest, or other such easy-mode aircraft they should earn a lower score as compared to a player that flies the P40E, P38G, 109F-4, or even the F6F, Ki-61, or Spit 9. 
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Offline Zoney

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Re: Great new ideas for strategic evolution of game
« Reply #107 on: June 01, 2011, 04:46:50 PM »
Maybe, aircraft factories, with 20 finished planes sitting on the tarmac in the strat area.  It takes 1 minute to build, supply each plane.  Fly over these in a buff, destroy the aircraft, it will be 1 minute for your enemy to get that plane type to fly, 20 minutes for all 20 to be available.  Maybe this could also be tied in where you wanna take 30 P51, s on a strike?, nope 20 at a time, then 1 minute per plane rebuild.  If this was for each and every plane it would provide alot of ground targets for the buffs, give the fighters something to defend and make it more fun.  If you love that spit or that P38, or whatever, you would not want to just let the buffs come take em.

I think fighter pilots have plenty to do, it is the buff pilots that I think could use a little more than just bombing bases
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Offline dirtdart

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Re: Great new ideas for strategic evolution of game
« Reply #108 on: June 01, 2011, 04:50:03 PM »
Strategic evolution of the game:

1.  Scoring:  Only list the ranking of the top 100.  Otherwise you are unranked, you only track your statistics.  That way the few guys who actually care can know where they stand, the rest of the folks who just like to play don't have to have guys looking at their rank as a measurement of AH prowess.  

2.  Develop a truly strategic setting to encourage a country identity.  Have factory and distribution systems which are more responsive to damage.  That damage can restrict play for a side.  Not remove it, such as the old spitfire factory, but say reduce your fuel/ord/ammo options.  

3.  Make the towns smaller or reduce the % of damage (yes poor HTC has been through the ringer on this one).  Base taking encourages the fight.  Making towns harder just gets people to mass on one field instead of several smaller engagements across the map.  

4.  The perk system.  Leave ENY in place, get rid of the perk bonus system.  I would modify the perk system by having you absorb the perks paid for a perk ride if you shoot it down.  Perk planes already get ganged and nothing more could keep people out of them than some traffic on 200 saying thanks for the 187 perkies for you 262.  

5.  Place thicker clouds at 10k.  This would cut down on the picking and encourage fighting. This would have to be balanced with what the bomber guys want/need/

Just a few thoughts off the top of my head.  The major reasons for the drastic drop in the amount of time I play are tied to some of these things.

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Offline Zoney

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Re: Great new ideas for strategic evolution of game
« Reply #109 on: June 01, 2011, 04:54:56 PM »
Maybe, instead of all 3 chess pieces having all the aircraft available, one has axis only, one has allied only, and one has mixed.  You want to fight allied with your axis, go attack that country.  You want to choose any plane and fly, choose the side that has all aircraft.  You want to attack and don't care what the enemy is flying, well, that would be available too.

Just throwing out some ideas mates.
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Offline Lusche

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Re: Great new ideas for strategic evolution of game
« Reply #110 on: June 01, 2011, 05:03:45 PM »
Maybe, instead of all 3 chess pieces having all the aircraft available, one has axis only, one has allied only, and one has mixed.  You want to fight allied with your axis, go attack that country. 


Unfortunately this would be as unbalanced as it can get. The huge majority will end up on the mixed side, only a tiny minority of furballers may end up on the axis side (being massively at a disadvantage in standard MA gameplay on the buff side)
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Offline prowl3r

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Re: Great new ideas for strategic evolution of game
« Reply #111 on: June 01, 2011, 05:59:18 PM »
I think this is one example of a good intended idea with not all consequences being considered :)

Yes, vulching gives you a high k/h and thus is good for score. But on the other hand, getting completely rid of a time based scoring stat also promotes extreme timidness. Someone packing full fuel in his pony and flying for 60 minutes, engaging only from a position of absolute safety will currently have a high k/D, but an absolute lousy k/h, and thus a bad rank (many player really overestimate k/d in the current system).
If you eliminate the time aspect, there is no "need" to rush anything, ever. Get one kill on a helpless victim, fly home, refuel, look for another "perfect" victim...

I am one of those "safety" fliers, with my worst scoring category always being K/H. I can never get a fighter top rank because I'm generally not aggressive and reckless enough, too much combat avoiding. If your proposal would be implemented, my rank would improve a lot, I could even think of getting #1 in fighters for the first time ever.
Do you really want that? ;)



maybe i do luche ;) my point was more aimed at encouraging long range missions to strats and for the fighters to perform escort duty with the k/h in the score many ppl would not want to becouse of the derogatory effects on rank(all who play atleast give a cursory look @ thier stats) but i really believe that a change in the ranking sys will give the effect that we are looking for with adavanceing the strategic aspects of the game
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Offline Letalis

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Re: Great new ideas for strategic evolution of game
« Reply #112 on: June 01, 2011, 06:28:00 PM »
I wonder if there is a way for HTC to assign further ID tags to the aircraft programming?

It is too bad we dont see scoring based on a similar system like the perk point system: if a player does nothing but fly a Spit16, La7, Tempest, or other such easy-mode aircraft they should earn a lower score as compared to a player that flies the P40E, P38G, 109F-4, or even the F6F, Ki-61, or Spit 9. 

This is a great thought. 
Potential fix: Perks per hour getting incorporated into the scoring formulas.

I'd love to see an aggressive P-40 driver with a 4:1 K/D come out ahead of some Temp dweeb with a 8:1 K/D.
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Offline grizz441

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Re: Great new ideas for strategic evolution of game
« Reply #113 on: June 02, 2011, 12:13:00 PM »

maybe i do luche ;) my point was more aimed at encouraging long range missions to strats and for the fighters to perform escort duty with the k/h in the score many ppl would not want to becouse of the derogatory effects on rank(all who play atleast give a cursory look @ thier stats) but i really believe that a change in the ranking sys will give the effect that we are looking for with adavanceing the strategic aspects of the game

The best way to accomplish exactly that is to:

1) Put a very high value on the strats in questions making the trip well worth it.
2) Require that if you do damage to the strat you must land for it to count

That way you have missions going to strats because it IS worth it, and you also have lots of combat, and it is realistic, with players trying to get back to base. 

Offline hyzer

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Re: Great new ideas for strategic evolution of game
« Reply #114 on: June 02, 2011, 12:28:52 PM »
The best way to accomplish exactly that is to:

1) Put a very high value on the strats in questions making the trip well worth it.
2) Require that if you do damage to the strat you must land for it to count

That way you have missions going to strats because it IS worth it, and you also have lots of combat, and it is realistic, with players trying to get back to base. 

If the damage is applied when the mission lands, say 15 minutes after the actual attack I could see some epic comments on 200 when the port suddenly blows up with no one around. 
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Offline grizz441

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Re: Great new ideas for strategic evolution of game
« Reply #115 on: June 02, 2011, 12:32:32 PM »
If the damage is applied when the mission lands, say 15 minutes after the actual attack I could see some epic comments on 200 when the port suddenly blows up with no one around. 

Nah that would affect something like downtimes.  I'd say that whatever object you blew up would explode as you killed it but then of two things could occur:

1) You land, as soon as you end sortie that damage becomes official and applied to corresponding fields
2) You die after you did the damage, damage immediately results back to undamaged.  So this would be the goofiest part, but if you destroyed 10 buildings, as soon as you were dead, the 10 buildings would immediately appear back, similarly to when buildings "pop" in the towns and bases.

Offline Bear76

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Re: Great new ideas for strategic evolution of game
« Reply #116 on: June 02, 2011, 12:58:46 PM »
that kind of sounds really dumb lol
  like 103 of your posts :lol

Offline Letalis

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Re: Great new ideas for strategic evolution of game
« Reply #117 on: June 02, 2011, 01:01:39 PM »
Nah that would affect something like downtimes.  I'd say that whatever object you blew up would explode as you killed it but then of two things could occur:

1) You land, as soon as you end sortie that damage becomes official and applied to corresponding fields
2) You die after you did the damage, damage immediately results back to undamaged.  So this would be the goofiest part, but if you destroyed 10 buildings, as soon as you were dead, the 10 buildings would immediately appear back, similarly to when buildings "pop" in the towns and bases.

Wha... :headscratch:  DOES NOT COMPUTE.
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Offline gpwurzel

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Re: Great new ideas for strategic evolution of game
« Reply #118 on: June 02, 2011, 01:58:19 PM »
Pretty sure Grizz means the damage is applied "when it happens", but if you dont go back and land your set of buff's - the buildings pop back up. This would stop the bomb and bailers right in their tracks - no reward for bailing out once damage done kinda thing.

Gets my vote. Also agree that strats should have more bearing on the rest of the game, make them worthwhile attacking.

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Offline Letalis

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Re: Great new ideas for strategic evolution of game
« Reply #119 on: June 02, 2011, 02:18:25 PM »
Leave the score system in place.  Tweaking it to factor in ENY as previously discussed in this thread for the sake of evening the scoring field is a good idea.  If you don't like score/rank, ignore it. If some idiot dweeb thinks he's better than you because of his score, go all DA on his derriere  or better yet, don't care what he thinks. If you think the scoring system is responsible for dweebish flying I disagree. People kill you because that is what they're there for and they will kill you any way they can because defeating futile attempts at survival is what we find amusing.   :devil

Leave the perks alone, it basically serves its purpose.  Go a week seeing a 262 for every Pony and you'll be happy for a couple days because you'll have a free 262 as well.  Then what do you think will happen? You will start missing your sentimental newly uber uncompetitive  plane X and get frustrated. Variety is the spice of life.

When I drop a bomb on something I want it to go boom. No spontaneous structural regeneration crap if I die.

If we want to see strategy we should have incentive to fight a war. The basic incentive to fight a war is the ability to win it. Map changes every several hours do not permit this.  Is there a point to capturing bases right now that someone isn't telling me about?  A vulch is fun but does nothing except pad stats.

Change towns so they do not regenerate (but allow AAA to regen post-capture), let a team leave a satisfying wake of destruction in the scarce few hours of fighting on a given map.  Front lines will take battle damage, change faster and no bomb runs will be wasted.  "Porking" a town will have meaning for bombers instead of simply being a dweebish waste of time 90% of the time.

When it is time for the map to change, the game should flash some stats from the campaign and declare a winner for the engagement (taking relative player levels into account) instead of just kicking everyone.

The game should track map wins by for each country over the course of an entire tour to give country loyalty some vague form of meaning.  To give players a little vested interest in helping the greater cause, give them some general use perks for base captures to use as they see fit. (IE I don't fly buffs but find the B-29 is appealing) Said perks could be used in any category and transferable to players who care about perks.  For those who really care about winning the war but understandably see goon resupply runs as boring, let them spend these general use perks strategically to regenerate the damaged towns that would not regen otherwise.
 
As far as stopping the "bomb and bail" crowd, I don't think this is a huge issue, it happens a minority of the time. Also, while I've never done it I can understand the temptation. Buff sorties get shot down a majority of the time, take mucho time and there is little incentive to wasting your day driving your virtual buff a half hour home after you've gotten your perks.  Most of the time these folks just provide easy kills for the rest of us.  That said, there are more "realistic" options to control this dweeb behavior.  IE: If they bail from a perfectly good aircraft, throw a modest perk fine at them instead of rewarding the sortie with additional perks.  If someone still does this despite the perk penalty I say let them- if they aren't doing it for themselves they are doing it for their country's war effort with the limited time they have online.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2011, 02:57:22 PM by Letalis »
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