Frustration...

[saggs]

Yes, but...

In case of actual numbers of players logged in, I am keeping an eye on that number for years now, but only have sound, presentable  data for a relative small number of selected dates

In terms of the bigger picture, overall activity, I just have the same data any player can have via score & stats pages. Of course I do not have no data at all about # of subscribers and other business relevant things.
But you can take the number of kills in an arena as a very good measure of activity, played hours (and thus relative player numbers logged in), because the kills/hour is a remarkably stable number over the years, at least for the LW MA


Here's an example covering the time since AH went AH II in 2004:

(Image removed from quote.)

Arena Split was early Sept 2006, score's were split one year later. My projection for the second quarter 2011 is a conservative, slightly optimistic one based on it's first two months.

Nice graph.  There is an obvious decline since mid 2009, question is; is the decline tied to the economy, or is there less interest in this type of game?

I mean I know part of it is economic pressure on people.  But if/when the world economy turns around, will the players come back or not?

[Lusche]

Do you believe that all those folks are chess piece loyal, or do you think with one arena it would go back to folks going to where they think they can win?  I guess in the end it comes down to me that I don't care if it goes back to one arena, but I want some balance so that it isn't horde wars.  I know there are folks that think Titanic Tuesday is heaven.  And there are those of us who'd rather watch grass grow then fly that night because of the horde warrior mentality.

I honestly believe that what you call "horde mentality" is not tied, nor prevented, by any arena setup. Hordes exist in one single arena as well as two seperate arenas. The difference is just that hording, i.e. superiority by a massive numerical advantage, is happening more easily with a multi arena setup. A a lot of players are what i call "sunshine loyalists". They fight (or play ) for "their chesspiece", but they tend to go to the arena where they are "winning". That's why we do see very high ENY values more frequently, and for much longer periods since the arena split, and that's why they are much less pronounced on Titanic Tuesdays. The example I have above was at that values for the whole evening, Rooks were massively outnumberd in LWB for hours while Bish experienced the same in LWB

[Lusche]

Nice graph.  There is an obvious decline since mid 2009, question is; is the decline tied to the economy, or is there less interest in this type of game?

I mean I know part of it is economic pressure on people.  But if/when the world economy turns around, will the players come back or not?

I'm afraid this is no question with a simple answer and could be debated endlessly on the BBS.

I for one only can say: I do not know. Of course I have a few guesses and a vague opinion, but having no "behind the scenes" knowledge and never having worked in the industry, it might not be worth much  

[mthrockmor]

Great discussion with numbers.

I can only add anecdotal points. My squad, Loose Deuce, has members from North America and Europe. Daily we have squadies doing what they do best from roughly 2 PM to 4 PM. In the US we are getting off work early, out of school, etc. In Europe it is right before midnight. It is great because we have the one arena. Unofficially our squad flying time ends when they shut the arena down and force us into two arenas. The fight dies, peters out and almost everyone logs off.

If we must have two arenas, remove the caps. Better yet, keep the one arena unless it climbs to 400+ or so. Seems pretty straight forward to me.

On another note, do we have outreach efforts for the 2-week trial guys? I think we all agree the more the merrier. I know the trainers are great. Maybe we should find ways for veterans to work with the trial sticks. If they have a great experience they are more likely to stick around. Maybe HT could provide this info to trainers and squad COs so they can reach out to them. If there are say 25 trial people this week, the COs have a list of names and we can look for this pilots and include them. Being part of the community will help keep them around. Admitted they are fun to shoot down but comradery is better. I should add that it took me over a year to realize the value of this forum. I had to randomly discover that this community extends beyond the arenas.

I have limited exposure, two years isn't much history. It is pretty obvious though that numbers are declining and a few efforts could help boost them. I for one am happy to help the cause.

Boo
Loose Deuce

[PFactorDave]

On another note, do we have outreach efforts for the 2-week trial guys? I think we all agree the more the merrier. I know the trainers are great. Maybe we should find ways for veterans to work with the trial sticks. If they have a great experience they are more likely to stick around. Maybe HT could provide this info to trainers and squad COs so they can reach out to them. If there are say 25 trial people this week, the COs have a list of names and we can look for this pilots and include them. Being part of the community will help keep them around. Admitted they are fun to shoot down but comradery is better. I should add that it took me over a year to realize the value of this forum. I had to randomly discover that this community extends beyond the arenas.

YES!  YES!  YES!

I have been saying this for quite some time now!  The key is getting them early and teaching them to fight!  A good fight is tons of fun!  Adrenaline!  Even if/when you lose!  Getting repeatedly toasted because you don't even know the basics is not fun...

A system that encourages squads, vets, frogs, or leprechauns to get their hands on the new guys and get them pointed in the right direction could be HUGE for Aces High!  

The Trainers are great, but admit it, if you aren't a BBS junky you aren't likely to get hooked up with a trainer.  I would love for HTC to get the Squads more involved.

[HawkerMKII]

One arena.

Works every Tuesday, week in and week out.

I've never logged in on Tuesday and been unable to find some violence.

Fly P-40Bs with your squaddies if sides are unbalanced.

TT like arenas 7/24....please no!!!

[oboe]

I fly weekend mornings when I can, and I know it's generally fun until the arena is split.   

Maybe the two-week trial players could have their own color of icon, so everybody on a side would know who the two-weekers are and be especially helpful/friendly to them.   Those graphs posted of declining player numbers are worrying.   With the demise of FA, you think AH should've grown a bit.

What about a change to the structure of the maps?  I mean, when a new map comes into being there are 3 side-controlled areas, giving 3 fronts to generate fights on.  What about using a start similar to the random start in Risk, where a side's bases are scattered randomly throughout the map, and the side must capture bases to consolidate it's territory?  That would increase the number of fronts greaatly, and might break up the base-taking hordes into a bunch of smaller fights until territories are consolidated...

[Lusche]

What about a change to the structure of the maps?  I mean, when a new map comes into being there are 3 side-controlled areas, giving 3 fronts to generate fights on.  What about using a start similar to the random start in Risk, where a side's bases are scattered randomly throughout the map, and the side must capture bases to consolidate it's territory?  That would increase the number of fronts greaatly, and might break up the base-taking hordes into a bunch of smaller fights until territories are consolidated...

An increased number of fronts makes hording, that is assembling a big number of players in a weakly defended area, easier even. More fronts means more opportunities to strike where the defender doesn't expect. And on a personal note, I do not like "more fronts than players" concept at all, because there is hardly a chance for sustained battles. We can see this every Titanic Tuesday in the offhours arena when we have a large map and just 60 players online.

[Frod]

Just an observation with minimal analysis:  More action=more excited players telling their friends!  Maybe that means one arena until numbers get back up (they will, this economy isn't permanent).

[Shuffler]

Failure to change sides to even teams is a big issue.

[Frod]

I agree Shuffler.  I change sides just to fight a fight (in spite of being labeled a traitor).

[Lusche]

Failure to change sides to even teams is a big issue.

To me, a bigger issue is having only 70 player in an arena with a large map, while the other arena is capped at 200. A lack of gameplay options and action density, so to speak. All that horde and imbalance stuff is just a secondary symptom.

Personally, I do not mind the hordes. It's actually opposite: I am eagerly looking for them. 

[Butcher]

To me, a bigger issue is having only 70 player in an arena with a large map, while the other arena is capped at 200. A lack of gameplay options and action density, so to speak. All that horde and imbalance stuff is just a secondary symptom.

Personally, I do not mind the hordes. It's actually opposite: I am eagerly looking for them. 

The games all about hording and using overwhelming numbers now a days, I think the entire system needs to be relooked as far as the ENY and 3 countries, because frankly I don't see how this game can end up any worse then it already is.

[icepac]

I think the hording is due to the psychological makeup of our player base slowly changing from people with specific skills and interests along the lines of WWII aviation to people who are just general gaming types.

In the early days, guys were willing to spend endless hours configuring a telnet session in order to connect and play.

It's much easier nowadays and those players willing to invest the time to play in the early days have either left or are being dliuted by the guys who just want to invest the minimum time to get to the fight rather than spend time planning or executing an epic mission.

[AWwrgwy]

Some observations:

Compairing numbers playing on a Saturday to those playing on a Sunday to show a decline? Really?
I'm sure there are less people playing now than before but that's just not good statistical analysis.
Let's compare the number of people at work on a Friday to those working on a Saturday.

Arena caps causing people to leave in droves? I would imagine the people affected most, in the purse, would know best.

The interesting thing I found about the Sunday numbers in Orange,

The Rooks and Knits were actually doing the primary fighting, against each other. So much for hording the side without numbers.



wrongway