no icon for me,none for you

[Karnak]

did you read the part when i said u cant change your icon on and off mid flight.its the same way no tracers works

It doesn't matter.  Your request is, at its base, a request for a method to avoid combat.  This is a PvP combat game and facilitating a skill less method of avoiding combat would be bad for the game.

No, being quasi-stealthed and getting ambush kills isn't really combat.

[LThunderpocket]

It doesn't matter.  Your request is, at its base, a request for a method to avoid combat.  This is a PvP combat game and facilitating a skill less method of avoiding combat would be bad for the game.

No, being quasi-stealthed and getting ambush kills isn't really combat.

to avoid combat?lol if i felt like avoiding combat i wouldnt play.icons would just make it harder to be seen.being stealth and ambushing is just as much combat as anything else.but if you feel like having big icons so u can easily spot someone,thats your training wheels.

[Karnak]

to avoid combat?lol if i felt like avoiding combat i wouldnt play.icons would just make it harder to be seen.being stealth and ambushing is just as much combat as anything else.but if you feel like having big icons so u can easily spot someone,thats your training wheels.

See, now you're going into the fake, elitist crap that you claimed you weren't doing before.

I don't get much enjoyment out of shooting an aircraft that is just flying straight and level and doesn't know I am there.  It isn't fun.

I prefer to have a contest of skill and for that both my opponent and I need to know the other is there.

The fact that you want to avoid a contest of tactics and maneuvers to the point that you want to simulate your pilot as legally blind says a lot about what you are looking for.  In addition, being able to turn icons off as you suggest would be an advantage to you as you you know to be looking for dots and your opponent would not.  You are the one trying to set the rules to favor you over the other players and in such a way as to avoid actual fighting in preference of boring ambush kills.

May as well go HO people for all the skill that takes.

[Scotty55OEFVet]

AvA Arena for that....no icons in MA would be chaos

[colmbo]

a piper can be mistaken for a cessna at that range. far from looking like it's on your cowling.

BS.

I can easily tell the difference between a Piper and Cessna at over 2 miles...have done so numerous times real life.  Hell, I can even tell the difference between Cessna models...say 150 vs 206.  I have positively ID's a 747 at 12 miles (as called by ATC) and could even tell the airline (happened to be a Korean 747, all over blue)

No icons would be a perfect world if we could see as well in game, but we can't.  IMO using short icons is a good compromise.

[guncrasher]

BS.

I can easily tell the difference between a Piper and Cessna at over 2 miles...have done so numerous times real life.  Hell, I can even tell the difference between Cessna models...say 150 vs 206.  I have positively ID's a 747 at 12 miles (as called by ATC) and could even tell the airline (happened to be a Korean 747, all over blue)

No icons would be a perfect world if we could see as well in game, but we can't.  IMO using short icons is a good compromise.

good for you.  airplanes fly right over my house while landing at ontario airport.  I cant tell the difference between a 747 and a cessna.  there's a reason why the ava only has a few people, get rid of icons in ma (wont happen by the way) and many people will just quit the game.  It is not about skill but more to do with how we perceive the game.  when i tried the ava i coudnt tell the difference between a shadow and a con, so I would ended up chasing shadows and getting killed by the cons and that was while using ww1 airplanes.

no icons in ma will definately kill the game faster than you can say ho's are not really acm.

semp

[Rino]

     Since the largest Cessna they make would fit under one wing of a 747, that doesn't say much for your
aircraft ID skills      I'm all for icons myself, and I spent over 20 years working on a flightline.  You get to
the point where shapes, windows and wing/engine placement will allow you to make a pretty strong guess
as to type or even model number.

     

[LThunderpocket]

good for you.  airplanes fly right over my house while landing at ontario airport.  I cant tell the difference between a 747 and a cessna.  there's a reason why the ava only has a few people, get rid of icons in ma (wont happen by the way) and many people will just quit the game.  It is not about skill but more to do with how we perceive the game.  when i tried the ava i coudnt tell the difference between a shadow and a con, so I would ended up chasing shadows and getting killed by the cons and that was while using ww1 airplanes.

no icons in ma will definately kill the game faster than you can say ho's are not really acm.

semp

i can tell the diff between a 152 and a 172.i can tell the difference of a c5 or a kc135 at 15k,i can tell the difference of a lot of different planes IRL (mostly military)im not saying it would be easy in game to tell what plane it is cause it doesnt matter what plane he is

it comes down to skill,you dont know what he is,but you still will die if you dont have the skills to shoot him down.just because you have a big red sign doesnt mean you will get the kill then.the only thing that would be different is spotting the guy.

if you see a p51 at 5.0k low and u are in a p47 with 5k alt advantage,you would know that you dont want it to become a fight that you cant control the end,you might try to BnZ him or somthing else.(thats with icons)now same scenario,same planes.not knowing what he is you might give it a little more though as to how you are going to go about your attack.once you dive down and notice that he is a p51 you would use your best tactics to kill him.

in a way i think this would change the way people go about dogfighting.

[Karnak]

Not having icons makes it a lot more likely you will get the kill.

I don't know where you are getting the silly idea that people think icons helps them get kills as it is quite the opposite.  Icons make a fight more likely.

[LThunderpocket]

Not having icons makes it a lot more likely you will get the kill.

I don't know where you are getting the silly idea that people think icons helps them get kills as it is quite the opposite.  Icons make a fight more likely.

i dont think that.i think with no icons it would be harder to spot people without their icons.keep in mind icons would still exist for people who wanted to have a big red sign under them as well

[Karnak]

Exactly, it makes it harder to have a fight but a lot more likely to get a kill, or be killed.  It is all about the sneak kill where the other guy never makes a move.  Basically you increase the SA skill and reduce all other skills

Icons have the effect of saying "Here I am and there you are, lets get it on!" and then you find out who is better in a actual fight.  This reduces the skill needed for effective SA, but increases the values of all the other skills involved.

The request to have no icons you are making is a request for sneaking and fight avoidance.  It doesn't matter what you want it to be, all that matters is what it would actually be.

[LThunderpocket]

Exactly, it makes it harder to have a fight but a lot more likely to get a kill, or be killed.  It is all about the sneak kill where the other guy never makes a move.  Basically you increase the SA skill and reduce all other skills

Icons have the effect of saying "Here I am and there you are, lets get it on!" and then you find out who is better in a actual fight.  This reduces the skill needed for effective SA, but increases the values of all the other skills involved.

The request to have no icons you are making is a request for sneaking and fight avoidance.  It doesn't matter what you want it to be, all that matters is what it would actually be.

ok thanks for your opinion

[Karnak]

ok thanks for your opinion

The problem you have here is that, like most people who make requests for games, you haven't even put basic effort into thinking of the consequences of your idea beyond the immediate effect you think it would have on you.

Part of any design process has to be tearing apart an idea and finding the unintended consequences before it is implemented.  When somebody comes up with an idea they should do their best to find the weaknesses and exploitable effects of that idea.

Everything I have said in this thread would happen if HTC were to implement your idea.  Fortunately, HiTech and co are pretty good at thinking these things through.

[BnZs]

"SA" doesn't figure into it. Staying fast NOE and looking for someone "skylighted" and turning down your resolution to see dots better...all of this is a product of the great AvA "No icons" experiment.

It does not work. It introduces results that bear no resemblance to what real air combat was like, ever has been like, or ever could be like.

Exactly, it makes it harder to have a fight but a lot more likely to get a kill, or be killed.  It is all about the sneak kill where the other guy never makes a move.  Basically you increase the SA skill and reduce all other skills

Icons have the effect of saying "Here I am and there you are, lets get it on!" and then you find out who is better in a actual fight.  This reduces the skill needed for effective SA, but increases the values of all the other skills involved.

The request to have no icons you are making is a request for sneaking and fight avoidance.  It doesn't matter what you want it to be, all that matters is what it would actually be.

[slayem]

 Yeah i think the limited vis thru screen would make it too difficult to determine aircraft type and therefore your engagement plan. Even in the real war, for example, P-47's often had gawdy colors or patterns so other allied pilots could see they weren't Fw-190's. It is fun with reduced icon range or no icon ranges in special events,but there you don't have an axis-allied plane mix situation.
A nice idea for discussion though.