Mustang on the Endangered List (Cap)

[Reaper90]

and next year the camaro will be updated...and still slower.  

 in the meantime, here's a pair of street cars. good thing the camaro has that high tech irs, eh?  
http://blog.americanmuscle.com/watch-our-2012-boss-302-mustang-vs-a-camaro-ss/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=fbpost6212011camboss

before ya try saying it's biased........that is exactly what is happening on the track, and thus i would imagine at stop light challenges. over 2 seconds faster. the plain old gt would've torn it up too. 

Hmmm, sorry CAP, but what you posted was a comparison done of a purpose-built Mustang vs a 2 year older Camaro, each car driven by a staff member of a Mustang website..... and you claim fair comparison?

Hire unbiased, outside driving talent. Anyone who has ever driven competitively could see the Camaro driver was taking sandbagging to a whole new level. He smoked the Mustang off the line just to make the whole thing look fair, then parked it coming out of turn one. That whole test was a joke. All we need now is a similar test from an equally unbiased Camaro website that shows the test turning out in the opposite manner and the universe will be balanced again.  

[CAP1]

Hmmm, sorry CAP, but what you posted was a comparison done of a purpose-built Mustang vs a 2 year older Camaro, each car driven by a staff member of a Mustang website..... and you claim fair comparison?

Hire unbiased, outside driving talent. Anyone who has ever driven competitively could see the Camaro driver was taking sandbagging to a whole new level. He smoked the Mustang off the line just to make the whole thing look fair, then parked it coming out of turn one. That whole test was a joke. All we need now is a similar test from an equally unbiased Camaro website that shows the test turning out in the opposite manner and the universe will be balanced again.  

 ok unbiased.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/112_1006_2011_mustang_gt_2010_camaro_ss_2010_challenger_srt8_comparison/conclusions.html

 well...that's not totally true. motor trend has always given me the impression that they hate american cars(with the exception of the vette)......and if they had to choose an american car, it wouldn't be a ford. so they are somewhat biased....against fords....yet they chose the ford as a winner. you may also note, reading the article, they note that the camaro barley beat the under powered 4.6 stang of it's same year.

[MaSonZ]

Road and Track (i feel) has always been more of a european / super car magazine.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/tests/comparison/2011-camaro-ss-convertible-vs.-2011-mustang-gt-convertible

Hmmm, sorry CAP, but what you posted was a comparison done of a purpose-built Mustang vs a 2 year older Camaro, each car driven by a staff member of a Mustang website..... and you claim fair comparison?

Hire unbiased, outside driving talent. Anyone who has ever driven competitively could see the Camaro driver was taking sandbagging to a whole new level. He smoked the Mustang off the line just to make the whole thing look fair, then parked it coming out of turn one. That whole test was a joke. All we need now is a similar test from an equally unbiased Camaro website that shows the test turning out in the opposite manner and the universe will be balanced again. 

i dont mean to be on CAP's ankle.

[icepac]

True....Motor Trend has some of the worst testing ever.

Partial list of motor trend cars of the year.

• 1971 chevrolet vega
• 1974 ford mustang II
• 1975 Chevrolet Monza
• 1976 Chrysler, Dodge Aspen/Plymouth Volare
• 1978 Dodge Omni/Horizon
• 1980 Chevy Citation
• 1983 Renault Alliance
• 1988 Pontiac Grand Prix
• 1995 Chrysler Cirrus
• 1996 Dodge Caravan......I had more customers needing help with these than any other car.

All magazines are biased.

[CAP1]

Road and Track (i feel) has always been more of a european / super car magazine.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/tests/comparison/2011-camaro-ss-convertible-vs.-2011-mustang-gt-convertible

i dont mean to be on CAP's ankle.

 no problem...........

 here's motor trend's test of 6 cylinders.......hhmmmm.....wo nder which one won? 
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/1102_2011_chevrolet_camaro_vs_dodge_challenger_vs_ford_mustang_vs_hyundai_genesis_coupe_v_6_comparison/index.html

 it's ok though....i know they're clamoring over there at chevy to make somethign that might equal it. pretty sad that it lost so poorly to a hyundai though. 

[Skuzzy]

You're talking trans-am and he's not.

The 283 was available in 1957 with 283hp and 315hp in 1961.

The first windsor with any HP worth talking about was the 260 with 260hp in the early cobras in 1963.

The 289 showed up in 1964 and did not beat the the 1957 chevy 283's 283hp....ever.......but shelby modified a 289  for the 1965 GT350 that ran 306hp..........only 4 years after chevy made a 283 that put out 315hp.

Also...by 1962, chevy was making a 327 with 360hp.

Chevrolet managers were officially against supporting racing.

Sorry icepack, but the horsepower ratings game, back in the 50's and 60's, was more marketing than reality.  It was not until 1972 that most of the previous loopholes, for tweaking the numbers was closed and a switch from gross HP to net HP was made.  It would be 2005 before all the loopholes would be closed.

Take the 67 Impala 396, rated at 325HP.  In reality it was closer to 220HP.  The old marketing HP numbers really do not mean anything today.

[Reaper90]

ok unbiased.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/112_1006_2011_mustang_gt_2010_camaro_ss_2010_challenger_srt8_comparison/conclusions.html

 well...that's not totally true. motor trend has always given me the impression that they hate american cars(with the exception of the vette)......and if they had to choose an american car, it wouldn't be a ford. so they are somewhat biased....against fords....yet they chose the ford as a winner. you may also note, reading the article, they note that the camaro barley beat the under powered 4.6 stang of it's same year.

I don't really take any position on the Mustang vs Camaro debate, actually, just pointing out the obvious silliness of that test. I watched the video through to the end but it became apparent by turn 2 that the Camaro driver intentionally lifted and allowed the Mustang to pass, then fell in behind him. I don't dispute the Mustang in either GT or Boss 302 flavor is a sweet ride, and easily the Camaro SS's match in many ways. As always, it will come down to driver, and track.

If I were going to spend that kind of green, however, I'd just pick up a used Z06, add a few mods, crush Mustangs and Camaros, and be done with it.  

If I wanted something with back seats I'd buy a sedan. The CTS-V's are nice, I hear!  

[icepac]

Sorry icepack, but the horsepower ratings game, back in the 50's and 60's, was more marketing than reality.  It was not until 1972 that most of the previous loopholes, for tweaking the numbers was closed and a switch from gross HP to net HP was made.  It would be 2005 before all the loopholes would be closed.

Take the 67 Impala 396, rated at 325HP.  In reality it was closer to 220HP.  The old marketing HP numbers really do not mean anything today.

I'll let someone else comment in the interest of not having my posts disappear.

[MaSonZ]

So those 13 second muscle cars really didn't exist?

he isnt saying the cars never existed, hes saying the horse power was more for the marketing.. those that want to run fast like bigger numbers in the HP/ft.LB. torque, no?

[icepac]

Actually the reverse was true.

The auto companies routinely underreported horsepower because of the insurance companies.

[Reaper90]

no problem...........

 here's motor trend's test of 6 cylinders.......hhmmmm.....wo nder which one won? 
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/1102_2011_chevrolet_camaro_vs_dodge_challenger_vs_ford_mustang_vs_hyundai_genesis_coupe_v_6_comparison/index.html

 it's ok though....i know they're clamoring over there at chevy to make somethign that might equal it. pretty sad that it lost so poorly to a hyundai though. 

The v6 Camaro lost to the Hyundai just as badly as the Mustang V6 lost to the Hyundai, in performance numbers..... they just caught so much heat for choosing the Hyundai over the Mustang in the previous test they figured they'd better no make that mistake again!  

They even admitted as such.. the Genesis coupe outperformed the Mustang in all categories, but they gave the Mustang "first place" based on "cool factor" and style.  

Funny thing is if I were choosing between one of those four cars right now I'd pick the Hyundai before any of those three in a heartbeat.

[CAP1]

I don't really take any position on the Mustang vs Camaro debate, actually, just pointing out the obvious silliness of that test. I watched the video through to the end but it became apparent by turn 2 that the Camaro driver intentionally lifted and allowed the Mustang to pass, then fell in behind him. I don't dispute the Mustang in either GT or Boss 302 flavor is a sweet ride, and easily the Camaro SS's match in many ways. As always, it will come down to driver, and track.

If I were going to spend that kind of green, however, I'd just pick up a used Z06, add a few mods, crush Mustangs and Camaros, and be done with it.  

If I wanted something with back seats I'd buy a sedan. The CTS-V's are nice, I hear!  

 see? if i hadn't watched the mustangs spank the camaros at watkins glen a couple weeks ago, i'd have thought the same thing. the stang easily walked away in the straights, and turns.  

[CAP1]

he isnt saying the cars never existed, hes saying the horse power was more for the marketing.. those that want to run fast like bigger numbers in the HP/ft.LB. torque, no?

 that, and the majority of the hot rods were well above 13 second 1/4 miles.

[Reaper90]

see? if i hadn't watched the mustangs spank the camaros at watkins glen a couple weeks ago, i'd have thought the same thing. the stang easily walked away in the straights, and turns.  

So full race prepared cars somehow equate to what the stock street cars do when matched up?  Go back and watch that vid you posted again, and tell me what happens from the starting line to half way between turns 1 and 2..... 

Saying that those race results reflect what you can get out of the "consumer variety" is like me saying mid 80's Honda CRX's are faster than '80's V8 Camaros and Mustangs from the factory just 'cause I used to smoke most of the American Sedan (Stangs and Camaros, in a slightly hotter than "showroom stock" level of prep) field in my ITB class CRX. Heck, there were plenty of days my best lap time was faster than most of ITA and ITS, which was made up of Mazda RX7's, BMW 325i's, 240Z's... 

[CAP1]

Actually the reverse was true.

The auto companies routinely underreported horsepower because of the insurance companies.

 that onlyu started ion late 60's