Mustang on the Endangered List (Cap)

[Shuffler]

'cause they can't get them. so they go to second best.  

EDIT>>>>>>

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1051784_2012-boss-mustang-track-key-detailed

Available through Ford dealers, the Track Key adds Ford's TracMode powertrain control software. The software gives the car full race calibration and two-stage launch control without negatively affecting the warranty.

Only the V6 is in shortage. The rest .... not enough demand to keep that one facility open.... possibly

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

so what you're saying, is that chevy couldn't use the 283 to compete with the 289, so they put a 350 in the camaro to beat a lil 289...once again, trying to compete........ford so ford plunked the 390 in the stang.

 and yes.....i believe chevy took the trans am championship with that limited edition 302.......to which ford answered with its own limited edition 302....and handed them their butts back. 

 and so it continues today. chevy seems to feel the need to use cubic inches to compete, yet on the track,.,....and street they're not. well...they are......i mean....someone has to cross the finish line second, right. 

No, actually what I'm saying is that the 283 had long since been relegated to economy duties, since 1962 and the advent of the 327. And the base 327 4V Camaro would stomp the top of the line 289 4V Mustang in 67. Hence Ford produced the 390 Mustang, which was immediately trounced soundly by the 396 Camaro. Then Ford produced the 428 Mustang, which also got beaten soundly by the 396 Camaro. Of course, then the Camaro got a 427 in 1969, leaving Ford crying yet again. My 64 Impala 409 would easily beat the neighbor's 68 428 SCJ Mach 1. In fact, he blew up 3 428's trying to beat the 409.

The 302 Z/28 was never a limited edition engine. The 302 Boss was never produced anywhere near as long as the 302 Chevy, or in anywhere near the numbers. Further, the 302 Boss sucks on the street, and the 302 Chevy is still winning at the track. The two fastest 302 powered Stock Eliminator cars are the two Camaros of Duzac and Peterson, and the Wentzel brothers. The same 67 Z/28 that won Indy in 1967, Ben Wentzel's car, won a national event again last year.

Again, the ONLY Fords doing well these days in Stock or Super Stock are the "Roush" Cobra Jets, with bogus HP factors and superchargers. Proving yet again Ford can't build a winner in house, they have to farm it out, and they have to pay to get the rules changed. So it continues today, Ford buying wins and needing blowers to get there.

[Skuzzy]

i believe top gear caught ford lieing about the 2005 mustang gt500 aswell.


they did a dyno test on it, came to about only 427hp instead of the 500 it was claiming.

Unless they used the dyno Ford used, the results are moot.  Every dyno reads slightly differently, and between manufacturers, they can be very different.

Dynos have to be setup.  What SAE settings did the Top Gear dyno use?  Was that published?

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Unless they used the dyno Ford used, the results are moot.  Every dyno reads slightly differently, and between manufacturers, they can be very different.

Dynos have to be setup.  What SAE settings did the Top Gear dyno use?  Was that published?

Exactly. A dyno can say anything you want it to say. I've been operating dynos for 20 years, you can play all sorts of games with calibration and correction factors. Even identical dynos will read different in different locations, as no correction factor is perfect. The first thing to look at on a dyno sheet is the weather conditions and the correction factor used.

[Bronk]

Unless they used the dyno Ford used, the results are moot.  Every dyno reads slightly differently, and between manufacturers, they can be very different.

Dynos have to be setup.  What SAE settings did the Top Gear dyno use?  Was that published?

Also rear wheel hp vs at the crank.

[CAP1]

i believe top gear caught ford lieing about the 2005 mustang gt500 aswell.


they did a dyno test on it, came to about only 427hp instead of the 500 it was claiming.

 they probably did rwhp.

[icepac]

Our dyno dynamics twin retarder good for 2400hp and over 200mph is called "the dream crusher".

It's dead accurate and, for some reason, the figures we see are far less than what our customers were told by the previous shop.........this includes Ligenfelter, Underground Racing, and Hennessey.

[CAP1]

No, actually what I'm saying is that the 283 had long since been relegated to economy duties, since 1962 and the advent of the 327. And the base 327 4V Camaro would stomp the top of the line 289 4V Mustang in 67. Hence Ford produced the 390 Mustang, which was immediately trounced soundly by the 396 Camaro. Then Ford produced the 428 Mustang, which also got beaten soundly by the 396 Camaro. Of course, then the Camaro got a 427 in 1969, leaving Ford crying yet again. My 64 Impala 409 would easily beat the neighbor's 68 428 SCJ Mach 1. In fact, he blew up 3 428's trying to beat the 409.

The 302 Z/28 was never a limited edition engine. The 302 Boss was never produced anywhere near as long as the 302 Chevy, or in anywhere near the numbers. Further, the 302 Boss sucks on the street, and the 302 Chevy is still winning at the track. The two fastest 302 powered Stock Eliminator cars are the two Camaros of Duzac and Peterson, and the Wentzel brothers. The same 67 Z/28 that won Indy in 1967, Ben Wentzel's car, won a national event again last year.

Again, the ONLY Fords doing well these days in Stock or Super Stock are the "Roush" Cobra Jets, with bogus HP factors and superchargers. Proving yet again Ford can't build a winner in house, they have to farm it out, and they have to pay to get the rules changed. So it continues today, Ford buying wins and needing blowers to get there.

68 ss396= 1/4 in 15.0
68 390 stang= 1/4 in 15.0.

 yep...that's hammering them all right.

 rgw 428 was running 13.9's in street trim, and 11'2's in track trim. i give chevy credit for their 69 427's being almost a half second quicker. but again.....late to the table. 

[Tyrannis]

Unless they used the dyno Ford used, the results are moot.  Every dyno reads slightly differently, and between manufacturers, they can be very different.

Dynos have to be setup.  What SAE settings did the Top Gear dyno use?  Was that published?

my apologies i got that wrong.

they were dyno testing the older 60's gt500's to a 2005 gt500. basically a mustang comparison.

they found that the older 60's gt500 was the one who had only 428hp. and the 2005 gt500 was only registering 492hp.

it was a video presentation, currently searching for it on youtube (saw the original vid back in 07) will post once i find it <S>

[CAP1]

my apologies i got that wrong.

they were dyno testing the older 60's gt500's to a 2005 gt500. basically a mustang comparison.

they found that the older 60's gt500 was the one who had only 428hp. and the 2005 gt500 was only registering 492hp.

it was a video presentation, currently searching for it on youtube (saw the original vid back in 07) will post once i find it <S>

no, they didn't. they dyno tested a 2008 gt500(i think it was an 08). not nearly as powerful as the current shelbys. the other mustang they ran on the dyno that episode, was the hampsters personal car. a 68 gt390.

[Tyrannis]

no, they didn't. they dyno tested a 2008 gt500(i think it was an 08). not nearly as powerful as the current shelbys. the other mustang they ran on the dyno that episode, was the hampsters personal car. a 68 gt390.

you sure we're thinking of the same episode? could of sworn it was a 2005 gt500 vs a 68 gt500
(i could be wrong tho, seeing how i havent seen that video again since 07)

[CAP1]

you sure we're thinking of the same episode? could of sworn it was a 2005 gt500 vs a 68 gt500
(i could be wrong tho, seeing how i havent seen that video again since 07)

i've never seen top gear test a 68 gt500......but it could be an episode i missed.

 are you talking about the episode where hampster calls the stangs rear "a great whacking girder with a wheel at each end"? if so, then it's his car in there.....

this one?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O46E0gCF5os

 just for poops n giggles, i'm on chevy's website right now, building my own camaro. well....i just did it. for one as close as i can get it to the equilivent stang, it's looking like 35, 270. then it says "We have found 48 Camaro Coupe 2SS in your area."

 the stang, with hid lights optioned in, 3.73 rear optioned in, looks like 34,345. wanna know how many are in my area in stock? 5. 2 of those 5 are shelby gt500's, right up the street from my shop. wish i had 55k.

i wanted to do 2012, but the chevy website defaulted to 2011,,,,,so i did that with the ford too.

[Masherbrum]

i've never seen top gear test a 68 gt500......but it could be an episode i missed.

 are you talking about the episode where hampster calls the stangs rear "a great whacking girder with a wheel at each end"? if so, then it's his car in there.....

this one?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O46E0gCF5os

 just for poops n giggles, i'm on chevy's website right now, building my own camaro. well....i just did it. for one as close as i can get it to the equilivent stang, it's looking like 35, 270. then it says "We have found 48 Camaro Coupe 2SS in your area."

 the stang, with hid lights optioned in, 3.73 rear optioned in, looks like 34,345. wanna know how many are in my area in stock? 5. 2 of those 5 are shelby gt500's, right up the street from my shop. wish i had 55k.

i wanted to do 2012, but the chevy website defaulted to 2011,,,,,so i did that with the ford too.

    Ford better worry!  

Oh back to the OP:

Breakdown by Model – (Total 2011 Mustang Production – 68,650):

Mustang V6 coupe – 27,557  (damn, they sure didn't sell many of these.....)
Mustang V6 convertible – 9,645
Mustang GT coupe – 21,296
Mustang GT convertible – 5,126
Shelby GT500 coupe – 4,094
Shelby GT500 convertible – 932

......it's also Made in the US.    


Shuffler, do you REALLY think that:

A.  The Mustang is going away?
B.  Auto Alliance is closing, or even REMOTELY close to closing?  
C.  Ford is worried about Chevy being a year behind?  

[CAP1]

hhmmmmmmmmm..................

Ford's goal for the Boss was to beat a certain Bavarian around Laguna, but that was easy. We proved the regular GT was just a tick off the pace of the M3 in our October 2010 cover story. What Ford has done is much more; this is hands-down the best Mustang it has ever produced, and we tip our hats for not wimping out with merely a sticker-and-wing package. So who's next on the challenge list? Good question. While the new Camaro ZL1 has improved suspension and a lot more power, we don't think it stands a chance against this Boss on a racetrack. But we look forward to finding out.

Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/1102_2012_ford_mustang_boss_302_test/interior.html#ixzz1QA4ZFTv2

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

68 ss396= 1/4 in 15.0
68 390 stang= 1/4 in 15.0.

 yep...that's hammering them all right.

 rgw 428 was running 13.9's in street trim, and 11'2's in track trim. i give chevy credit for their 69 427's being almost a half second quicker. but again.....late to the table. 

I've been racing for decades, I've never seen an FE Mustang even come close to beating a 396/375 Camaro, not in anything even close to stock trim or original condition, there's never been a 390 that was even close to a 396/375, maybe a 396/325, but even the 396/350 was faster than the 390. Like I said, my 3900# Impala 409 stomped the 428 SCJ Mustang, with ease, and I couldn't keep up with the 396/375 Camaro, and the dirt cheap 396/375 Nova was even faster. The only hope the Mustangs ever had was if the 396 car couldn't get traction. The 390 Mustang was never even a contender, even if Steve McQueen made one look really good in Bullit.