Author Topic: Really Japan? REALLY?????  (Read 2513 times)

Offline gyrene81

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 11629
Re: Really Japan? REALLY?????
« Reply #15 on: June 17, 2011, 09:07:06 PM »
It's the same amino acids, lipids and micronutrients that you'd find in regular meat.  You just need to keep all the nasty bacteria that love to live in the cow's intestine out of it, and make sure that the cow isn't sick (it'll show up in the raw materials).

It's no different from taking your own urine, boiling it, filtering it, and then drinking the left over water.  Think of it as pulling out the good stuff, and you'll realize that it's recycling, not eating actual feces.  To elaborate, imagine that you are a Nutrient Bender; you have the power to move any nutrient telekinetically.  If you lifted the good stuff out of a turd, it wouldn't actually look bad at all.  It would be the same thing that you'd find in a steak.  Furthermore, you're still eating what used to be feces when you eat 'real' meat because of decomposers.

If you really want to get freaky, you are eating the cooled remains of highly radioactive fusion explosions.  Now put that in your reactor and melt it.

You guys need to relax, real meat is just as dangerous if mishandled.  If properly done, meat made from the nutrients extracted from feces would be no different from meat grown on animals.  It's just recycling, and it allows us to reuse things that would usually be lost as waste.  This isn't some hippie's dream, this is a great step forward in creating a sustainable food supply.

Rock on Doctor Mitsuyuki, your work will not be appreciated for a long, long time.

 :salute
-Penguin
you're so far out in left field sometimes...they're not talking cow feces there penguinhead...it's feces in general, from the sewage systems...the soybeans that poop extract is mixed with has more nutritional value pound for pound...and it's much less expensive. consider the fact that if we ever get to the point where we have to eat poop extract, there won't be anything else edible to bind it with to make it more palatable. and it seems you didn't note in your effervescent wisdom, that in order to produce the poo needed for that extract, something has to be ingested and digested...and the diminishing returns makes it not highly sustainable in the long term.

might make a good animal feed or at best emergency survival rations.
jarhed  
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. - Terry Pratchett

Offline fbEagle

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 584
Re: Really Japan? REALLY?????
« Reply #16 on: June 17, 2011, 10:55:56 PM »
 :O  :confused:   :huh  :uhoh  I think that guy was hanging out at the reactor a little too long.
<Insert witty remark here>

Offline Rino

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8495
Re: Really Japan? REALLY?????
« Reply #17 on: June 17, 2011, 11:17:17 PM »
It's the same amino acids, lipids and micronutrients that you'd find in regular meat.  You just need to keep all the nasty bacteria that love to live in the cow's intestine out of it, and make sure that the cow isn't sick (it'll show up in the raw materials).

It's no different from taking your own urine, boiling it, filtering it, and then drinking the left over water.  Think of it as pulling out the good stuff, and you'll realize that it's recycling, not eating actual feces.  To elaborate, imagine that you are a Nutrient Bender; you have the power to move any nutrient telekinetically.  If you lifted the good stuff out of a turd, it wouldn't actually look bad at all.  It would be the same thing that you'd find in a steak.  Furthermore, you're still eating what used to be feces when you eat 'real' meat because of decomposers.

If you really want to get freaky, you are eating the cooled remains of highly radioactive fusion explosions.  Now put that in your reactor and melt it.

You guys need to relax, real meat is just as dangerous if mishandled.  If properly done, meat made from the nutrients extracted from feces would be no different from meat grown on animals.  It's just recycling, and it allows us to reuse things that would usually be lost as waste.  This isn't some hippie's dream, this is a great step forward in creating a sustainable food supply.

Rock on Doctor Mitsuyuki, your work will not be appreciated for a long, long time.

 :salute
-Penguin

       Fine, eat all the fecal matter you want, I prefer my food a bit less processed thanks.
80th FS Headhunters
PHAN
Proud veteran of the Cola Wars

Offline greens

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1413
Re: Really Japan? REALLY?????
« Reply #18 on: June 18, 2011, 03:00:54 AM »
any1 watch king of the hill? well, ina texan voice " penguin drinks his own peepee n eats his own poopoo! "
It's the same amino acids, lipids and micronutrients that you'd find in regular meat.  You just need to keep all the nasty bacteria that love to live in the cow's intestine out of it, and make sure that the cow isn't sick (it'll show up in the raw materials).

It's no different from taking your own urine, boiling it, filtering it, and then drinking the left over water.  Think of it as pulling out the good stuff, and you'll realize that it's recycling, not eating actual feces.  To elaborate, imagine that you are a Nutrient Bender; you have the power to move any nutrient telekinetically.  If you lifted the good stuff out of a turd, it wouldn't actually look bad at all.  It would be the same thing that you'd find in a steak.  Furthermore, you're still eating what used to be feces when you eat 'real' meat because of decomposers.

If you really want to get freaky, you are eating the cooled remains of highly radioactive fusion explosions.  Now put that in your reactor and melt it.

You guys need to relax, real meat is just as dangerous if mishandled.  If properly done, meat made from the nutrients extracted from feces would be no different from meat grown on animals.  It's just recycling, and it allows us to reuse things that would usually be lost as waste.  This isn't some hippie's dream, this is a great step forward in creating a sustainable food supply.

Rock on Doctor Mitsuyuki, your work will not be appreciated for a long, long time.

 :salute
-Penguin
_-=ELIM EAGLES=-_
in loving memory of OZ <Eagles21>
 miss you bro!

Offline Plawranc

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2683
      • Youtube Channel
Re: Really Japan? REALLY?????
« Reply #19 on: June 18, 2011, 06:05:59 AM »
Well, if anyone has watched Iron Chef.

If you are able to eat Japanese food.... you might as well try out feces as well.
DaPacman - 71 Squadron RAF

"There are only two things that make life worth living. Fornication and Aviation"

Offline Penguin

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3089
Re: Really Japan? REALLY?????
« Reply #20 on: June 18, 2011, 11:52:19 AM »
you're so far out in left field sometimes...they're not talking cow feces there penguinhead...it's feces in general, from the sewage systems...the soybeans that poop extract is mixed with has more nutritional value pound for pound...and it's much less expensive. consider the fact that if we ever get to the point where we have to eat poop extract, there won't be anything else edible to bind it with to make it more palatable. and it seems you didn't note in your effervescent wisdom, that in order to produce the poo needed for that extract, something has to be ingested and digested...and the diminishing returns makes it not highly sustainable in the long term.

might make a good animal feed or at best emergency survival rations.

I know that he was referring to feces in general, but I used a cow as an example.

Yes, the returns do diminish since no system is 100% efficient, but as of right now, ours is 0% effcient since we throw it all away after it passes through our system just once.  Furthermore, we could use his technique to give nutrients to those who cannot eat, and use it to create growth media for bacteria cultures.  Not only that, but the field of artificial meat could use this to great advantage, seeing as it could use waste to build new meat.

This is like discovering oil- there were no cars or plastics at first, it seemed pointless, but now look what we can do with it.  In addition, why would this be used for emergency rations only?  If we could use waste to augment the nutritional value of regular food, we'd be a step closer to solving world hunger.

Strictly speaking, if you took all the nasties out (dead red blood cells, diseases), you could eat your own feces without issue.

-Penguin

Offline F22RaptorDude

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3641
Re: Really Japan? REALLY?????
« Reply #21 on: June 18, 2011, 12:01:06 PM »
I know that he was referring to feces in general, but I used a cow as an example.

Yes, the returns do diminish since no system is 100% efficient, but as of right now, ours is 0% effcient since we throw it all away after it passes through our system just once.  Furthermore, we could use his technique to give nutrients to those who cannot eat, and use it to create growth media for bacteria cultures.  Not only that, but the field of artificial meat could use this to great advantage, seeing as it could use waste to build new meat.

This is like discovering oil- there were no cars or plastics at first, it seemed pointless, but now look what we can do with it.  In addition, why would this be used for emergency rations only?  If we could use waste to augment the nutritional value of regular food, we'd be a step closer to solving world hunger.

Strictly speaking, if you took all the nasties out (dead red blood cells, diseases), you could eat your own feces without issue.

-Penguin
Issue is taste and smell and the fact that it came out your butt. Thats a huge issue because its all about the mental thoughts on the whole subject. People won't be willing to do it because of the mental limitations. Or something along the lines of that. You get my point.....
Reaper in a T-50-2 Scout tank in 10 seconds flat

Offline ToeTag

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1113
Re: Really Japan? REALLY?????
« Reply #22 on: June 18, 2011, 12:07:39 PM »
I re-use poop at the base of plants after its been mixed with lots of carbon.  Thats as far as I go. Great for the soil, great for the plants, great for me and anyone who eats the veg. It's 100% effective so in my book it's 100%efficient.  Poop burgers..........you gotta be kidding me.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2011, 12:09:21 PM by ToeTag »
They call it "common sense", then why is it so uncommon?

Offline Tigger29

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2568
Re: Really Japan? REALLY?????
« Reply #23 on: June 18, 2011, 12:25:23 PM »
I know that he was referring to feces in general, but I used a cow as an example.

Yes, the returns do diminish since no system is 100% efficient, but as of right now, ours is 0% effcient since we throw it all away after it passes through our system just once.  Furthermore, we could use his technique to give nutrients to those who cannot eat, and use it to create growth media for bacteria cultures.  Not only that, but the field of artificial meat could use this to great advantage, seeing as it could use waste to build new meat.

This is like discovering oil- there were no cars or plastics at first, it seemed pointless, but now look what we can do with it.  In addition, why would this be used for emergency rations only?  If we could use waste to augment the nutritional value of regular food, we'd be a step closer to solving world hunger.

Strictly speaking, if you took all the nasties out (dead red blood cells, diseases), you could eat your own feces without issue.

-Penguin

Actually you're incorrect once again.  Our poop DOES get recycled in the whole scheme of things.  This is Earth.. EVERYTHING gets recycled (except for what we send out into space).  No we might not be eating our own poop but our poop DOES work its way back into the environment where it feeds some bacteria.. which then feed some plants.. which then feed some animals.. when then feed us.  It's all part of the circle of life, or were you deprived of Disney movies as a kid?

It just kills me how people actually believe that what we don't reuse gets wasted.  That just isn't true in the whole scheme of things.  I'm not against recycling but when it costs more to recycle than to just produce new then one has to wonder if there is any real benefit to it...

Offline gyrene81

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 11629
Re: Really Japan? REALLY?????
« Reply #24 on: June 18, 2011, 12:25:43 PM »
I know that he was referring to feces in general, but I used a cow as an example.

Yes, the returns do diminish since no system is 100% efficient, but as of right now, ours is 0% effcient since we throw it all away after it passes through our system just once.  Furthermore, we could use his technique to give nutrients to those who cannot eat, and use it to create growth media for bacteria cultures.  Not only that, but the field of artificial meat could use this to great advantage, seeing as it could use waste to build new meat.

This is like discovering oil- there were no cars or plastics at first, it seemed pointless, but now look what we can do with it.  In addition, why would this be used for emergency rations only?  If we could use waste to augment the nutritional value of regular food, we'd be a step closer to solving world hunger.

Strictly speaking, if you took all the nasties out (dead red blood cells, diseases), you could eat your own feces without issue.

-Penguin
you need to stick with your toy soldiers or whatever it is that you do, science is not your forte. do i have to point out that the biosphere you live in has been around since long before humans? without human interference/destruction, the biosphere is a self sustaining system...everything living organism contributes to the next generation, from birth to death. every organism produces waste and that waste is recycled in some manner naturally, not with human science. it's very obvious with your wikipedia knowledge that you neglected the idea of fertilizer...look up milorganite so you can get a basic understanding of how poop should be recycled.

you want to solve world hunger, figure out how to economically turn desert into fertile land...don't try to sell fertilizer as food.

just so you don't miss it with your less than stellar reading, this is a description of milorganite.

Quote
Milorganite is an organic nitrogen fertilizer produced by the Milwaukee Metropolitan Sewerage District in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Popularized in the United States during the 1940s and 1950s, it consists of processed sludge from the Milwaukee Metropolitan Sewerage District Jones Island Waste Water Treatment Plant. It’s name comes from the combination of “Milwaukee,” “organic” and “nitrogen.”
Milorganite contains microbes that have digested nutrients from the sewage stream along with added iron, used to strip phosphorus from the waste water flowing into Lake Michigan.
That’s right friends, this 100% organic fertilizer product is processed poop!
« Last Edit: June 18, 2011, 12:33:30 PM by gyrene81 »
jarhed  
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. - Terry Pratchett

Offline Penguin

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3089
Re: Really Japan? REALLY?????
« Reply #25 on: June 18, 2011, 02:27:16 PM »
Actually you're incorrect once again.  Our poop DOES get recycled in the whole scheme of things.  This is Earth.. EVERYTHING gets recycled (except for what we send out into space).  No we might not be eating our own poop but our poop DOES work its way back into the environment where it feeds some bacteria.. which then feed some plants.. which then feed some animals.. when then feed us.  It's all part of the circle of life, or were you deprived of Disney movies as a kid?

It just kills me how people actually believe that what we don't reuse gets wasted.  That just isn't true in the whole scheme of things.  I'm not against recycling but when it costs more to recycle than to just produce new then one has to wonder if there is any real benefit to it...

Your notion of our waste being recycled into terrestrial ecosystems is sadly mistaken.  We don't bring our wastes back into the fields, but rather spill them out into the ocean.  Unless we start eating algae, doing that won't help agriculture. 

As for your bizzare question, no, I wasn't deprived of Disney movies.  Rather, I did not care for them, and my dad read me the works of Isaac Asimov, George Lucas, and Tolkien instead.  Best trade-off ever, I learned at least ten to fifteen words each night because when I didn't know a word, we'd look it up.  One advantage is that I've never had to study for a single vocabulary quiz.

 :ahand

you need to stick with your toy soldiers or whatever it is that you do, science is not your forte. do i have to point out that the biosphere you live in has been around since long before humans? without human interference/destruction, the biosphere is a self sustaining system...everything living organism contributes to the next generation, from birth to death. every organism produces waste and that waste is recycled in some manner naturally, not with human science. it's very obvious with your wikipedia knowledge that you neglected the idea of fertilizer...look up milorganite so you can get a basic understanding of how poop should be recycled.

you want to solve world hunger, figure out how to economically turn desert into fertile land...don't try to sell fertilizer as food.

just so you don't miss it with your less than stellar reading, this is a description of milorganite.


Let's keep personal attacks out of this.

You are correct in stating that given constant sunshine and heat from the earth, the biosphere is self-sustaining.  However, you conveniently neglected to mention what happens when six-and-a-half billion people all try to get fed.  First off, you've got soil erosion from overtilling, acid rain from processing, and desertification from irrigation.  However, there is another important aspect.  When we eat food, we're indirectly taking nutrients from the soil, and putting them through our bodies.  However, we don't complete the "circle of life" in that we just dump most of it out to sea in the form of sewage.  This leads me to my next point.

So we're just dumping nutrients from the soil into the sea, and they don't return quickly enough if at all.  What this means is that we're depleting our terrestrial stores of nutrients, while adding more to the ocean.  This doesn't help the ocean, either, especially in the case of nitrogen runoff, which creates huge algal blooms that result in dead zones.  Dead zones are massive swaths of de-oxygenated ocean, where higher lifeforms cannot be sustained.  We've created an imbalance, and ignoring it will not make it go away.

-Penguin

Offline gyrene81

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 11629
Re: Really Japan? REALLY?????
« Reply #26 on: June 18, 2011, 03:44:57 PM »
Let's keep personal attacks out of this.

You are correct in stating that given constant sunshine and heat from the earth, the biosphere is self-sustaining.  However, you conveniently neglected to mention what happens when six-and-a-half billion people all try to get fed.  First off, you've got soil erosion from overtilling, acid rain from processing, and desertification from irrigation.  However, there is another important aspect.  When we eat food, we're indirectly taking nutrients from the soil, and putting them through our bodies.  However, we don't complete the "circle of life" in that we just dump most of it out to sea in the form of sewage.  This leads me to my next point.

So we're just dumping nutrients from the soil into the sea, and they don't return quickly enough if at all.  What this means is that we're depleting our terrestrial stores of nutrients, while adding more to the ocean.  This doesn't help the ocean, either, especially in the case of nitrogen runoff, which creates huge algal blooms that result in dead zones.  Dead zones are massive swaths of de-oxygenated ocean, where higher lifeforms cannot be sustained.  We've created an imbalance, and ignoring it will not make it go away.

-Penguin
penguin, telling the truth is not a personal attack...if i had said something like "you're a blithering idiot" that would be a personal attack...get the idea?

this pseudo science you keep spouting is giving intelligent people a headache...as easy as it is for you, stick with fiction...that's your forte, since you seem to like pulling inaccurate facts out of your hat.

erosion occurs naturally as much as it does from farming, and it is not a major contributor to the creation of deserts in spite of whatever novel you have been reading...humans did not create the sahara, mojave, gobi, syrian, arctic or any other deserts...they were started many eons before humans by natural environmental changes.

acid rain is and was a natural occurance long before mankind...look up environmental effects of volcanic activity.

sewage is not dumped into the sea in developed countries and many undeveloped countries, especially the ones that are landlocked...even the undeveloped countries with primitive sanitation methods dump sewage into the ground...they learned a long time ago that nature will turn it into something useful.

we humans are more likely to dump none biodegradeable garbage and toxins into the water than anything.
jarhed  
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. - Terry Pratchett

Offline AAJagerX

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2339
Re: Really Japan? REALLY?????
« Reply #27 on: June 18, 2011, 06:46:19 PM »
Your notion of our waste being recycled into terrestrial ecosystems is sadly mistaken.  We don't bring our wastes back into the fields, but rather spill them out into the ocean.  Unless we start eating algae, doing that won't help agriculture. 

Unfortunately, that's a load of crap (pun intended).  I used to do water treatment, which included waste disposal plants.  After they extract the solids, they re-treat the water to the point that it's cleaner than the water pulled from rivers or wells THEN release it.  All of the solids are disposed of by other methods.  One popular method is to use it as fertilizer for sod fields.

You should really check your facts before having a "diarrhea of the mouth" attack (again, pun intended).
AAJagerX - XO - AArchAAngelz

trainers.hitechcreations.com

Offline F22RaptorDude

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3641
Re: Really Japan? REALLY?????
« Reply #28 on: June 18, 2011, 06:49:30 PM »
Apparently 7 Billion people is to much cause now people gotta eat poop  :rofl
But what happens when there's 8 Billion
then 9
then 10


 My point is how long can we go on before the world is over populated and destroyed because of heavy use of resources which are not easily replaced. World hunger is mans own fault for using gas station condoms  :rofl
Reaper in a T-50-2 Scout tank in 10 seconds flat

Offline Penguin

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3089
Re: Really Japan? REALLY?????
« Reply #29 on: June 18, 2011, 09:12:55 PM »
I wasn't referring to the rest of your post, here's the quote:

you need to stick with your toy soldiers

Another one, from your more recent post:

this pseudo science you keep spouting is giving intelligent people a headache...as easy as it is for you, stick with fiction...that's your forte, since you seem to like pulling inaccurate facts out of your hat.

Normally, the deserts shift somewhat, and over millions upon millions of years, they can spread far.  However, what we are seeing is rapid desertification, not the glacerlike process that allows animals to adapt.  Take the 'Dust Bowl', a clear result of overgrazing leading to desertification.

Unpolluted rain has a pH of 5.7, because of volcanic eruptions and other releases of CO2.  However, the acid rain you hear about is many hundreds of times that level.  Below 5 pH, fish eggs will not hatch, and even lower levels will kill adult fish.

However, these questions are off topic.

Unfortunately, that's a load of crap (pun intended).  I used to do water treatment, which included waste disposal plants.  After they extract the solids, they re-treat the water to the point that it's cleaner than the water pulled from rivers or wells THEN release it.  All of the solids are disposed of by other methods.  One popular method is to use it as fertilizer for sod fields.

You should really check your facts before having a "diarrhea of the mouth" attack (again, pun intended).

I did check my facts, and I found that not all sewage can be treated this way.  However, upon closer examination, I've noticed that it also depends on the amount of toxins (such as heavy metals and chemicals with names that professional linguists balk at) from industry that are included in the sewage.  In some cases, it is minimal, in other cases (such as industrial farming) the amount is astonishing.  It's not a silver bullet, but it'll help a great deal.

-Penguin