Spitfire in Donegal

[soda72]

Anyone else see this story?

They are going to attempt to recover a Spitfire from a peat bog in Donegal..

The story as to why the spitfire is there is interesting...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-13924720

[gyrene81]

wow, that's a hell of a story.    hope they can get the plane out and restore it.

[Penguin]

I read it, enjoyed it, and thought one thing: Twilight Zone.  This must be the most surreal story that I have ever read.  So a Spitfire pilot crashes in Ireland, and is then taken prisoner- in a resort!  Upon arrival, he sees none other than the Germans.  Not content with relaxing in this prisoners paradise, he escapes.  After trekking all the way to Britain, he gets shipped back again.  But wait, it keeps getting weirder; once the United States joins the war, he gets sent back to his unit.

This would make a great movie.

-Penguin

[cpxxx]

Someone did make a movie about it. It was a bit obscure though. It starred Gabriel Byrne. 'The Brylcreem Boys'. What the BBC article doesn't make clear is that in escaping Wolfe broke his parole. All internees had to sign out and promise not to escape. Otherwise the privilege would be withdrawn for all the others. That's why he was returned. If he hadn't come back all the others would have been locked up in camp. They could though escape from the camp itself and several attempts were made including a tunnel which was discovered early on. The Commandant allowed it to continue because it improved morale until it was almost ready. Then it was 'discovered'. Several did manage to escape from the camp and were not returned.

Of course the Germans had the same privileges. Both sides took full advantage and met Irish girls naturally. Some of the Germans stayed on after the war. Originally the British and Allied were sent back across the border but the Germans complained that it was unfair on their internees and so the British had to stay. Some actually used their time to go to college in Dublin. Others like Wolfe took up country pursuits. They're were plenty of Anglo-Irish around so they fitted in well.

The British were all sent back in 1943. No American servicemen were ever interned. A B17 came down in 1943 with no less than four American generals on board. There were soon sent back and the aircraft salvaged and returned to the USAAF. A lot of US aircraft became lost and refuelled in Ireland, others crashed. There were also a lot of unofficial visits. Meat wasn't rationed in Ireland during the war so the there were quite a few trips over to collect steaks.

A fascinating story. It must have been quite surreal to be a prisoner in the Curragh.

[Guppy35]

wow, that's a hell of a story.    hope they can get the plane out and restore it.

Can't imagine it will be in much more then crumpled bits and parts since he bailed out first..  I'd imagine the engine might still be recognizable.  Should be interesting.

[cpxxx]

The thing about Irish bogs is that they preserve things pefectly. It will be mangled but recognisble. I visited the site of a crash of an Irish Air Corps Seafire once. It hit a boggy mountain killing the pilot but when you pulled out parts they were perfectly preserved almost as if it happened yesterday.

[LThunderpocket]

not if i get it before they do!then its all mine.

P.S could someone do that?find an old warbird,recover it,and keep it?of course im sure they'd restore it

[Babalonian]

There's some red tape you gotta get through, but I believe in most nations it falls under "finder keepers".  The big and most "preventive" reason why you can't touch or disturb, in any way (some nations won't even let you take/publish pictures), is that most of these wrecks are preserved and protected as war graves since more often than not you can't prove without any reasonable doubt to the courts that the pilot isn't entombed within it.  Think of global policy on teh matter as a whole as embracing those looking to find, recover and preserve history - while drawing a very clear line at grave robbing or disturbing those not needing to be disturbed that died defending their country.

[Penguin]

Is it it the case that pilot bailed out from his plane?  In that case, one could simply bring in a picture of his tombstone (or the pilot himself) and reference the flight records of the period.

-Penguin

[Babalonian]

Is it it the case that pilot bailed out from his plane?  In that case, one could simply bring in a picture of his tombstone (or the pilot himself) and reference the flight records of the period.

-Penguin

Those are the easy ones and happens often enough that we have a few museums around the world stocked with a variety of these vintage aircraft that were recovered.  Where it gets tricky is if the pilot of the downed A/C is listed as MIA or KIA - was this his last aircraft he piloted in combat? - if this is his last known aircraft, can you verify (without any reasonable doubt infront of a judge) the KIA or MIA pilot successfuly bailed out of it and isn't entombed without disturbing the aircraft (and any potential remains) itself? - and in some cases, if you can't even verify the aircraft without disturbing it, then you can't verify its last pilot or his fate.  Again, the rule of thumb here is that they are mostly treated as and presumed to be memorials and war graves unless proven otherwise (with the burden of proof being on those wishing to recover or raise the historical aircraft).

[cpxxx]

Indeed in Ireland there are strict rules about taking archaeological objects from the ground, even Spitfires. You have to have a licence to buy a metal detector and basically you won't get one unless you are an archaelogist. This isn't so much to protect crash sites of which there are not too many. But Ireland is littered with ancient treasures, often in bogs, often gold. Hidden from Vikings and other marauders, English mostly.    You simply can't move without hitting some historic site. So the government clamped down.

Not that it stops anyone. Irish people and the law are sometimes strangers.

On the Spitfire dig apparently they found the pilot's helmet, complete with his initials. It's such a pity he still isn't around. It would be magic for him to be there. Apparently he even served in Vietnam. Someone should really make a movie about the man.