AvA icon setting "poll" - in AvA forum

[jimson]

EnemyLowIconRange is set at 0 but that may be incorrect as the default setting is 10000.

Doesn't make sense to me, but I will make that change and we will see if that fixes it.

[Oldman731]

Read the thread.  They are so delusional it isn't even worth my time of posting my preference.

Pity too, the current setup looks fun if it weren't spoiled by simulating pilots with eyesight so bad they wouldn't be allowed to get a drivers license.

I take it you are not a real world pilot.

- oldman

[mechanic]

Pity too, the current setup looks fun if it weren't spoiled by simulating pilots with eyesight so bad they wouldn't be allowed to get a drivers license.

try it on a 37" widescreen LCD at 1920x1080, no problem spotting anything at all 

[jimson]

Seems like a lot are expressing a preference of around 3k icons, that doesn't seem too delusional.

Is it realistic to be able to ID aircraft at 6k, 60 football fields or nearly 3.5 miles?

What settings does the SEA use?

[Dawger]

It is very disappointing to see the AVA move away from the no icon experiment. While not perfect it added something to the game and gave a least a little hope that a better icon system would be developed that better represented reality and preserved the visual glory of a close in fight.

I have long championed a revised icon system that aided the player in the middle ranges where the computer cannot simulate reality very well yet disappeared in close.

It doesn't appear this will happen.

I think player arenas are the last hope but I'm not sure they will ever reappear.

I made myself a promise a little over a year ago to support AH as long as there was a no icon option and to not support them if it was eliminated. I thought the AVA was solidly committed to keeping the no enemy icon idea alive but it appears they have succumbed to the pressure.

So adios until the next iteration of no icons or player arenas or an overhaul of the icon system.

[Nr_RaVeN]

Great now guys are quiting..
The icon lovers are a bit ignorant about icon settings.. They have not taken the time to learn or master the settings they are generally of the immediate gratification mentality and have not invested or-changed with technological advances in the flight siming world.. Tools like Track ir ect...

Yet the pontificate as if they are all knowing about both sides of the icon argument, when really they only have experience with icons on and very limeted experience with them off.

 Pepole generally mock what they don't understand... its a very closed minded mentality..Its the biggest factor that limits the advancement of the AH comunity away from icon dependence  

The unwillingness to try something new and more realistic is mind boggling.

 AC type in the real world cant be positively identified from 6k.... its totally gammy at that setting

With icons off AC type can be positively identified at 400-1000 that's closer to real life..

Track Ir makes no icons allot of fun.... If your serious about your flight simming, Invest in one and your no icon argument will take a 180deg turn... It did for me.

 Even if your not up for no icons a trackir  will make your icon game allot more fun as well.......Its 2011 pepole...Get off the hat switch dinosaur.

Also just becouse sombody has a  plutonium or radioactive in there avitar dosnt mean the are all knowing...



 

[ImADot]

Ouch! Everyone needs to take a step back and breathe deeply.

I've played in the AvA enough to get used to no icons. I agree that 6k icons is a general-masses gameplay consideration, but have come to the conclusion that no enemy icons is a bit much (unless dotdar is active all the time for both sides). After all, it's a combat game with the intent to be able to find someone with whom to engage in combat. I think, and added my post to the AvA poll, that 3k icons for both sides is a good compromise - which is the settinges used in the SEA for FSO.

What's the first thing people do everywhere? They pork the radar so the enemy has a harder time finding them. Unless you're trying to take the base, this is counter-productive to finding and engaging in combat. With 3k icons, you at least have a better chance to find someone to fight. Even though you have a good idea the type of plane you're likely to encounter, spotting them at 3k out at least gives you a chance to access the situation and begin some kind of ACM.

[Krusty]

It's been proven beyond any doubt by countless people that full icons is far more realistic to show what the human eye can see in real life than no icons is. No icons is a farce used under the guise of elistism and inflated superiority. Just look at any "no icons" argument and the only claims they can use to defend themselves are "you suck if you don't master flying with no icons"

It is neither a crutch nor a cheat nor is it unrealistic. The human eye sees a sh**load more than any computer monitor can display, ever. It sees it better, faster, with much easier reactions and motions.

The reason most shot-down pilots in WW2 never saw the enemy that shot them down was because they weren't looking, not because they were looking and could not see the enemy.

If the "no icons" folks are going to leave because icons get turned back on in the AvA, maybe they need to master actual fighting and manuvering rather than relying on "being lost" by the target at 100 yards. Maybe it's not a bad thing they want to quit over this petty artificially-inflated premise going away.

[Noir]

what? free track IR? 

[mechanic]

Krusty that is a load of cynical jibber jabber.

Have you considered that some of us actualy enjoy the realism in the sense of not having neon pixels flashing above every plane. It's not elitism, it's an immersion preference.

Maybe you will see what I mean if you watch a video I made from another sim, here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YygiM6FXLXQ&feature=player_detailpage#t=0s

[Old Sport]

When the first Spits and Thunderbolts started their escort work last spring, trigger-itchy gunners of Forts and Liberators warned them that it was hard to distinguish between friend & foe in an air battle. Some friendly fighters were shot down before fighters learned never to point their noses at bombers, as attacking Nazis do. Some bomber men had to be taught better recognition and understanding of fighter tactics.


TIME - Monday, Dec. 27, 1943

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,851983,00.html#ixzz1RoDVeQXp

I fully grant that a PC screen is far degraded from what the human eye is capable of distinguishing.

Nevertheless, here men on a relatively stable platform had a hard time making positive identification of a plane up to the point of opening fire and shooting them down.

[dhyran]

well,

the special thing about the AVA was allways the No Icon setup

look here, no problem to trace the opponent
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrNCmPna3ZQ

[Dawger]

It's been proven beyond any doubt by countless people that full icons is far more realistic to show what the human eye can see in real life than no icons is. No icons is a farce used under the guise of elistism and inflated superiority. Just look at any "no icons" argument and the only claims they can use to defend themselves are "you suck if you don't master flying with no icons"

It is neither a crutch nor a cheat nor is it unrealistic. The human eye sees a sh**load more than any computer monitor can display, ever. It sees it better, faster, with much easier reactions and motions.

The reason most shot-down pilots in WW2 never saw the enemy that shot them down was because they weren't looking, not because they were looking and could not see the enemy.

If the "no icons" folks are going to leave because icons get turned back on in the AvA, maybe they need to master actual fighting and manuvering rather than relying on "being lost" by the target at 100 yards. Maybe it's not a bad thing they want to quit over this petty artificially-inflated premise going away.

I've been flying online for 14 years and in real airplanes for 27 years. I've done a lot of experimentation with visual acuity and talked to real world fighter guys who also played online about what would make an icon system emulate reality while overcoming the shortcomings of the PC monitor.

I want a better icon system, one that recognizes the shortcomings of the PC without making the icon a neon billboard that destroys the visual beauty of the game.

It will never happen because of people like Krusty who refuse to see any middle ground.

There are two choices at the moment. Neon billboards or no neon billboards.

 I will not pay money for a game with multiple arenas that does not offer at least one with the enemy icons turned off.

When AH finishes the private arena code and I can find no icons once again I will gladly pay money again.

There is only one vote that matters to a business.

[jimson]

I don't know how it has been proven beyond a doubt that aircraft can be identified at over 3 miles distance, but I suspect it can be done at longer ranges than the 400 to 800 yards at which you can make out the plane shapes in AH.

The question is what range is more realistic?

One thing this debate has shown is that there are more than just a couple of bull headed staffers forcing the settings on everyone.

Quite a few people actually did like it.

[daddog]

Some of you may know this and if I am repeating information you already know I apologize.

You can set the icons to change depending on your altitude. The setting that does that is the 'enemylow icon range'. The enemylow icon range is tied to the radar altitude setting.

For example, you could have the icons set to 3k for both enemy and friendly, and the radar alt set to 500 feet.  Then you set the enemylow icon range to 1k.  As long as everyone is above 500' the icons will remain 3k, but the moment someone is below 500 feet (radar alt setting) the enemylow icon range kicks in and the enemy icon switches to 1k.

Hope that helps.

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