Is the AvA seriously considering enemy icons on permanently?

[Dawger]

poor Krusty

[Puma44]

No, not hidden at all. It's quite an obvious and open agenda. Even if taken out of context the reply will be "See, it's not helping, we need to turn them off again right this second!"

Krusty, you need to get over yourself.  You've been around so long, you've lost the ability to consider any opinion other than your own.  You are stuck in a close minded rut.  

Oh, by the way, my icons stay turned off.  My $14.95 a month, my decision.  If your in game abilities are such that you need icons, by all means, keep them turned on, your $14.95 a month, your decision.

Your quote is counter productive and just another indicator of your condescending attitude.

[TequilaChaser]

Well, TC, glad we are back in conversation mode. 

Glad you see it as a conversation/discussion  .... btw I took you off my ignore list about 1 week after our debate/arguement back then..... it was just to keep me from keeping on responding and possibly becoming an arse toward you....

To be more specific, "Part of the draw is the no icon concept, i.e. more realistic appearance" was intended to state my opinion and observation of a few others who seem to like the no icon concept, not to mislead or dictate to anyone.

fair enough, I accept your opinion/view......

Yes, TC, you are wrong.  I did not start playing AH until 2007.  Started in the MAs and endured the hording, vulching, etc. until a year or so ago when I was introduced to the AvA and haven't been into the MAs more than a handful of times that I can remember.  But, I'm sure you'll be able to find that in my stats.  As far as when I started to participate in the AvA forum discussion, it had nothing to do with the timing of the subject matter, it was a matter of subject interest that I thought I might contribute to. 

As far as my stats, I really don't care about mine, yours, or anyone else's.  They don't mean anything to me.  If you need them to satisfy yourself for some reason, then by all means, be my guest.   I'm paying and playing for the fun, the historic aircraft, and occasional hint of realism.  It's hard to understand the need to look up stats to understand where I'm coming from.  .

Actually I do not think I am wrong, I was only showing you via the touring stats/scores as being ingame since 2007 just like on the AH bbs......however, I was unsure if you might have flown sooner though under a different gameid or AH bbs username, so I gave you the benefit of doubt that you could have possibly been here longer.....

The only reason I looked at your stats was to see how long you had been playing the game and what arena you frequented........ I did not check your stats to see what type plane you fly, what K/D or K/H or hit percentage was or anything like that, your "stats/scores do not mean anything to me..... I used your stats to find the timeline, just to see when you started flying in the arenas, just to see which arenas, and to see if you had flown in the AvsA for any amount of time before the "no enemy icons" came in to the settings......

 by seeing when you started flying the AvsA in conjunction to the posts/replys you made regarding the matter, helped me understand why you was so pationiate about "no enemy icons".......... you mainly have the experience of "no enemy icons - AvsA" to go by where as the majority AvsA players have observed both ways to weigh the differences against each other......

I still think the Arena has its ups and downs, no matter how the arena is set up........ that the draw to this arena is the way the planes are matched up as well as the fact that most in this arena will cooperate with balanced gameplay and not go the route of hording, vulching, etc....... like you see more of in the MA's

I agree that the Sky Raider/ Pony mid air had to do with Situational Awareness but, that situational awareness was lost when maintaining the visual with lead was lost.  A major violation of the basic contract of formation flying (in the real world). Had visual with lead been maintained, the collision would have most likely not happened, but anything is possible in aviation. In bringing this up I was attempting to draw a parrallel with the differences in our individual computer systems and how some players can see better than others.  I don't agree, as has been suggested, that icons make the game more historic, or maybe someone said realistic.

I accept your view/opinion,

but I still think after reviewing the video several times, that it was a lack of SA / communication breakdown and bad judgement of distance, I do not think he lost sight, he just misjudged the distance/clearance.......

You have been around 10 years or so.  That is a whole boat load of experience and talent to draw from.  But, your $14.95 a month is the same value as mine and everyone else's, as are our opinions.  So, I suggest we agree to listen to and consider each other's opinions and ideas with an open mind.  Ya never know, there just might be an idea that you long time game vets haven't thought of or considered. 

I agree all our opinions carry basically the same weight, to a degree........  I have to be open minded, regardless of how I feel or think........

talent wise, I can assure you that you start to lose it the older you get, reflexes anyways.......


as for how long I have played, it'll be 11 years for AH alone come October this year, was in AW from 94/95 until it shutdown in 2001, and was in WB 2/3 off and on, FA/FA 1.0 then tried FA2.0, targetware off and on, Janes (<---alll different types WWII, korean, vietname, modern jets ), wwiionline and even tempted CF on occassion, IL2/IL2 forgotten battles/IL2 pacific off and on,  the History Channels DogFighter game online, and some old WWI, Red Baron I think it was on modem to modem in early 90's.... Tornado modem to modem early 90s, Falcon3/4...........  ( I always sucked at those Jet sims )..... LOL I probably have wasted 20 years or so on flight sims and alot of the times I was in 2 or more at the same time

<S>

TC

[Nr_RaVeN]

No, not hidden at all. It's quite an obvious and open agenda. Even if taken out of context the reply will be "See, it's not helping, we need to turn them off again right this second!"

This isn't about what's better or even the AVA at this point.

The AVA has made the decision.. I don't like it but I'm part of the staff and the guys are trying to do their best. They are my friends I support them here in the AVA the same way friends can  be friends but have different political views.

That said I feel no icons is a good fit for an Axis V Allied arena but its not the case at this point..lets give them a chance to get the numbers they want...how they want.
 
Most on the staff like Icons on at this point, and that is ok...  one way is not better than the other only different.

 Both styles are fine but they offer totally different game play... to me diversity is a good thing..

For me personally, out side of the AVA, in regard to icons, I have my own independent point of view

... its about Choice..
I will hope with H2H folks can have that choice. I hope the servers show up for all to see.. Icon, no icon, external views, whaterver the oporator wants.. its all good and within their right to choose how they want to spend their time..

IMO...You Krusty are a  hypocrite. You cant see the fact that people have a right to request what they like in a sim that offers everything but.
When they do you get all offended jump in gunz blazing saying they are elites and cramming things down your throat when in fact your forcing them to stand up for themselves.

your not embracing a different point of veiw. Your criticizing it. That is considered discrimination...

 I don't think that wanting a choice is some horrible agenda Krusty, but I do think censoring free choice as you do is, especially when one pays to play..

I am simply stating facts. I'm sorry you cant see that..

In regard to flying I do still fly 3 other sims other than AH on a regular basis and I can walk and chew at the same time...Because of that  I have more than one point of reference to pull from.

 I do not limit my knowledge to only one online sim like you do. Take your head out of the sand.  You have an  extremely limited perspective in other words..  your limited in your thinking because you have limited yourself to one online sim.



This whole sim is icons on.. Why don't you open your eyes and see how one sided that is and share the sim... Don't be so oppressive and such a closed minded dictator.

 Your point of view is exclusive not inclusive  Its selfish and narrow minded.... its not asking to much to have at least one server that has no icons you nerd..

You wrote the book on cramming opinions down peoples throat.

Guys that like No icons have to slink around in shame an get berated and put on the defense by guys like you. we are then forced to defend our position.

Guys like you who with no other point of reference but icon sim experience, guys like you who have only your opinion   as your basis in fact. on the other hand guys like me have a years of experience with both sides of the coin icon and no icon, in several sims.. not just this one.

My preferance is No icons.. much like some guys like blonds and some like red heads.. to me over all, any port in the storm will due, but id rather the blond.. .

It would be one thing if you actually knew what the hell you were talking about.

This isn't about what's better  its about having freedom of choice..

 AH has a DA extrnal veiw icon arena, a MA mixed plane set icon arena, a mid war mixed Plane set icon arena, The AVA limeted plane set icon arena, Early war, icon, FSO icon and so on...

The one thing every arena in Ah have in common is.... Icons on..... So who is craming what down who's throat here?

[CAP1]

Simple answer, yes, it is being seriously considered.  We are working out the ranges to use for both friendly & enemy and moving to a standardized format, so it won't be varying from week to week.  There is a thread below in this forum where you can give your opinion on what you would like for the ranges to be.  More details will be coming in the future as they develop.

 although i've not flown......if they're turned on, it makes this "just another" arena........it takes away incentive to come back.

[Shane]

although i've not flown......if they're turned on, it makes this "just another" arena........it takes away incentive to come back.

no different than it has been all along... you still see friendly icons at 3k...   

[CAP1]

no different than it has been all along... you still see friendly icons at 3k...   

 you might. i only tend to notice aircraft that are about to shoot my cartoon butt down.....one that i'm in a fight with. and although it would be fairly unpopular, i think it'd be cool to try turning off all icons for everyone for a week.......

[mechanic]

The main reason I would venture into the AvA at all in the last year or so was to enjoy the no icons experience. Just chipping in my .02, carry on.

[CAP1]

The main reason I would venture into the AvA at all in the last year or so was to enjoy the no icons experience. Just chipping in my .02, carry on.

 that's what i mean. the very first time i flew in the ava, i expected more ma bs. i got pleasantly surprised. VERY pleasantly surprised. since the first time i flew there, i think i've been in the mains less than a dozen times......i even stayed in there, when invited to come to lw to join my squaddies.....it was just a great amount of heart pounding fun.
 this isn't being said, because i feel i had any sort of advantage either......when i'd check my stats, my hit % in the ava was always below 4%. in the main arenas, it was always up between 6% and 10%, depending on what i was shooting at. i pretty much suck in the ava.......but that's not the point. there was always that challenge....and it was not the same as if i turn off my enemy icons......we were both on equal footing. i had to judge you, just as you had to judge me. nothing to tell either of us when to fire, or when we're in range of our guns.

 i've not been on in a couple months, as i've not been able to sit at the computer long enough, and due to an ankle injury, i can't keep my feet on the rudder pedals without causing severe pain.

 the main thing that kept me trying to get back in, was knowing i could come back to that fun arena.

[ImADot]

although i've not flown......if they're turned on, it makes this "just another" arena........it takes away incentive to come back.

I've been on both sides of the fence regarding icons. Since to me the game is about combat with other people, I am currently on the "short icons for all" side of the fence. It makes it easier to find opponents. I don't focus on the icon, but rather use it as a tool to help find the bad guy. Once I'm close enough to see the plane, I focus on it and not the icon.

The AvA isn't "just another arena" with icons on. It's the only 24x7 arena where you are can be assured (barring CM error) to not have Allied versus Allied or Axis versus Axis planes fighting. There's also all the cool custom maps, and generally more sportsmanlike behavior.