NO MORE TANK ACK

[DREDIOCK]

The way I see it is there is a balance.

Tanks are FAR easier to kill with AC guns then they ever were in RL. The tigers and panthers in particular. Most tanks killed by AC were killed by bomb. Not guns. Guns would typically, at best, disable a tank by damaging its track or engine. Inasmuch as these vehicles were so complex and the battle lines changing so often. There often simply wasnt enough time to repair the tank and thus the crew would abandon it. And the Germans also didnt have the tank recovery system that the allies and Americans in particular did either. so while ours were retreived more often then not. Theres were simply left in place. Particularly as the war progressed and the germans were placed more and more on the defencive. Probably more Tigers and panthers were abandoned due to them breaking down on their own Then were ever "destroyed" by aircraft.
 The instance of tanks being destroyed outright by IL2s guns is long known to have been overstated. Even the russians own data at the time. That of which I posted on the boards here somewhere a few years ago showed that it usually took several IL2s working together to kill a single tank with guns. But. Then again. Those vehicles didnt have the near microscopic zoom that ours do either. there was a reason for the says that "the best way to kill a tank is with another tank"
Because it was inherently more difficult then in killing them any other way. Here the reverse is true.
Then add into the mix that the pilots had to worry about really dieing. Which is something that tended to not only ruin their day But would also upset their mothers greatly.
Here we can take chances that no or VERY few pilots of the time in their right mind would even consider, let alone actually do. Again there is a reason why there were only a very small handful of incidents of Heavy bombers Dive bombing targets.
Think about how many times you "die" in a tour. Then imagine even if your the most experienced player if you were only allowed to die once. And then you had to quit the game forever. I think all of us would never do most of the things we regularly do

On the flip side. Killing an AC with a tanks main gun is ridiculously simple. If it happened IRL is was probably due more to a pure lucky shot then anything resembling skill. Here you can bounce back and forth from commanders to gunners position as the same person and fine tune your gun to be pointed in exactly the right direction. IRL the gunner would have had to take direction from someone elses perspective. If your good at gunning AC. Try doing it while not moving from the gunners position. Odds are your skill level will drop considerably as by the time you manage to locate the plane in your sight. It probably would already be passing you. Having the benefit of being both commander and gunner. You can jump from one spot to the other and instantly know the near exact bearing and near exact elevation. There is no transfer and interpretation of instruction. I think even todays Abram tanks would have a really difficult time of shooting down a WWII aircraft using only its main gun.
Also add to that the fact that often a bomb can land right next to your tank  and you can keep rolling along as though nothing happened. when IRL the concussion alone would if it didnt kill you outright. Would scramble your brains to the point of being incoherent

So what we have are aircraft that can unrealistically able to kill tanks with guns and tanks that can unrealistically kill AC regularly, sometimes at great range with their main gun. It balances out.

Then we also have M3s that can survive sometimes with perfect impunity several strafeings and direct hits with 20 mil and just cruise along without so much as the impact of the rounds causing a vibration.
But thats another issue altogether

[Tank-Ace]

I believe we've been over this topic before, and someone cited that the german stuka G1 and G2 pilots hated attacking soviet M4's (M4A2's, the main export variant, given to the USSR) becuase they would often take pot shots at them with their main guns. Sorry, I don't have the source, internet is being slow, hence the search is being slow  .

As to the argument that there is no recorded incident of an aircraft being shot down by a tank, well all I have to say is this, quoted from the constition: "Burden of proof rests with the accuser, not the accused". Show me proof that it DIDN'T happen, and I'll shut up (by the way, lack of evedince that it did happen isn't evidence that it didn't. All that is is a testement to the chaos of WWII)

And now that I've been rational, I can give forth with my oppinion to the OP: Nut up or shut up, if your going to make low angle attacks. Low angle = low life expectancy.

High angles are more effective with strafer aircraft too, by the way (top armor of the panzer is only about 15mm IIRC).

[bortas1]

(Image removed from quote.)(Image removed from quote.)

 

You need to be on a bridge, however.

 



wrongway

  i used to get those comics and sgt rock

[M0nkey_Man]

I love killing B-25s, stukas, and A-20s in my M4. They get what they deserve lol

[Rob52240]

I prefer the T34 for spanking Aircraft that fly too low and the M3 (75mm) for camping runways.

[Tank-Ace]

my main AA gun is the M8. People don't bomb them like they do tanks and flackers because they're not typicly seen as a threat to aircraft, and they're not invincible to strafing.

Seen as so harmless that I was able to drive up to a panther and kill him from 200yds out.

[SmokinLoon]

yup ... it still does not make it IMPOSSIBLE.

How about HIGHLY improbable?  The mere thought that a tanker would elevate his main gun to use vs an aircraft is absurd.  Just ask one.  Instead, if they knew they were being hunted they would do 2 things: man the MG and do their best to hide.  Oh, that and pray like mad for allied air power to show up.

Possible... maybe 1 to 1,000,000 odds.  It happens FAR more than that in AH.   

[Tank-Ace]

we die FAR more than pilots did in the real world

[iron650]

Well, people engage in shallow dives at low altitudes to attack a tank. The tank, having no other choice because he lost his MG (or is in a T34) has to shoot the main gun as defense. The tank driver wants to defend the tank and the plane wants to kill the tank. However the pilot made a big mistake coming in on a shallow dive at low altitudes. The tank is able to shoot the plane because the mistake the pilot made.

[SmokinLoon]

we die FAR more than pilots did in the real world

apple vs orange.   

[Megalodon]

Please explain how it is NOT POSSIBLE that a tank round could not hit a plane flying at speed.

Is there something about physics that you know and the rest of the scientific world does not know ?

Please show me where it ever happened in real life ....once... ever.

For a game that can't have a skin unless its historically perfect, or a plane model thats not right, or a plane that flew in ww2 and had enough production, or flew enough sorties.... It is totally retarded that a tank can hit a plane when it never happened, much like a twig that flips a tank.

[Megalodon]

I believe we've been over this topic before, and someone cited that the german stuka G1 and G2 pilots hated attacking soviet M4's (M4A2's, the main export variant, given to the USSR) becuase they would often take pot shots at them with their main guns. Sorry, I don't have the source, internet is being slow, hence the search is being slow  .

As to the argument that there is no recorded incident of an aircraft being shot down by a tank, well all I have to say is this, quoted from the constition: "Burden of proof rests with the accuser, not the accused". Show me proof that it DIDN'T happen, and I'll shut up (by the way, lack of evedince that it did happen isn't evidence that it didn't. All that is is a testement to the chaos of WWII)

And now that I've been rational, I can give forth with my oppinion to the OP: Nut up or shut up, if your going to make low angle attacks. Low angle = low life expectancy.

High angles are more effective with strafer aircraft too, by the way (top armor of the panzer is only about 15mm IIRC).

The evidence is in your own posts look at the 190f8 posts. You wanted a torpedo, but guess what, it never was used. Here in the game you have to prove it DID happen to be included. Not just some fantasy that has no support of happening anywhere anytime. Pot shots don't cut it. Find it. If it did happen you can bet it would be in some book somewhere as the greatest tank comander of the war.

I could go on and on showing you examples right here in the game why this should not happen because of the criteria everything else has to pass to be included.

Pure Fantasy,

[RTHolmes]

I'd be amazed if no one in WWII tried it if the opportunity arose.

[Megalodon]

I'd be amazed if no one in WWII tried it if the opportunity arose.

I would too.  

Trying is 1 thing, actually happening, nope. Say some one does find an instance of one tank hitting a plane. Then what?  Every tank is now a plane killer on steroids?

Its Ridiculous,  
 

[RTHolmes]

thing is, the opportunities would be very rare indeed as, unlike in AH, pilots wouldnt generally be flying unarmoured aircraft down the barrel of a tank at treetop level then breaking at 100yds. not to avoid the main gun, but to avoid the small arms fire.

have you seen the stats on fighter losses to heavy ack (heavy = over 40mm)? we are not talking proxy-fused high alt puffy AAA here, its direct fire, contact-fuzed, tank gun calibre AAA. essentially tank guns but without the engine and heavy armour that comes with a tank. look at it that way, and it was sadly very common indeed.

what AH tankers are doing with their main guns is exactly what happened to large numbers of fighters attacking ground targets in WWII.