Amy Winehouse found dead

[Vudak]

Please post some scientific evidence that one can become addicted to cannabis. Be forewarned that I will then find an equal amount of scientific proof to the contrary.

Just walk away from Aces High and every other video game forever.  They're not good for you, after all, so just walk away and quit.  You'll save money, and have a healthier lifestyle.

Now, when your mind first starts to formulate a host of reasons why you shouldn't quit, or even if you do quit for a time, but then your mind starts chipping away at you and you eventually cave in and play, then you might have a better idea of how something like cannabis can be addictive.

[Shuffler]

I very much wish that some angel could have whispered in her ear in 2002 and showed her what she would look like in June of 2011 if she allowed herself to fall to the lure of drugs.  Sad, those who have made snarky comments.  It could have been your friend or relative on the slab.

It is not the drugs fault. She made the choice to take them. Same with alcohol.....

Folks like to blame those but in the end it was the person's own choice.

[Vudak]

It is not the drugs fault. She made the choice to take them. Same with alcohol.....

Folks like to blame those but in the end it was the person's own choice.

I’m not looking to absolve her or anyone else from responsibility, and I also do not blame the drugs for her fate.  You are correct, it was her choice, and she made a poor one.  But where I’m from, that’s called a mistake, and I’m pretty sure we’ve all made at least one big one.  That shouldn’t be grounds to throw a person from the city gates, as we do with drug addicts today.

It’s also a kid’s choice to go play in some unknown woods, peek into a well, or swim into a current.  Sometimes they can get into a heap of trouble doing so.  We might say, “Well, that was their choice, and their fault,” but who but the most monstrous wouldn’t run to help, anyway?  Isn’t turning your back on a person struggling with addiction just the same as passively watching a child struggle in the water?  They need help, and if they only find cold shoulders, they will die.  Their choice or not, what happens next is yours. 

Further, supporting the current tactics of the War on Drugs is about as absurd an economic position as you can possibly find and from a purely miserly, practical standpoint, this pointless war should be ended as soon as possible.  Unless you’re a member of a police union or law school, there is absolutely no way you can come out ahead. 

Criminalization and jailing are economically disastrous in almost every sense of the word.  Not only must you pay more money to jail a person than you ever would to send them to rehab, but you’re also in effect throwing away a decade or more of paid public schooling.  The moment they get the felon or convict moniker, their chances of ever contributing to society and repaying the favor plummet.  Rather than “merely” throwing good money after bad, we throw bad money after good. 

The only way it isn’t a personal economic disaster is if you rely on an artificially inflated demand in your line of work, as police officers, judges, and lawyers do.  Prohibition is good business for crooks and crook catchers, and no one else.  The community can only suffer on the whole.

This is a community problem and requires a community solution.  If someone wants to get on their high horse, I suppose they’re entitled, but they can do so with the knowledge that they are contributing to the cycle of misery that is the War on Drugs.  A person might “choose” to enter the hell of drug use, but our society does not have to gleefully choose to keep them there.

[Melvin]

You have alot to learn.

You know nothing about me so here's a quick history.

The Son of two alcoholics I spent a solid ten years at the bottom of a whiskey bottle. Decided to come up for air when the kids started appearing. 

Acid, 'shrooms, coke, meth, weed, opium, hash, uppers, downers, all-arounders, done (and sometimes overdone) them all. 

I guess our basic communication breakdown here is due to the fact that you and I have different ideas about what constitutes an "addiction". When the weed causes you to black out, wake up in a pool of blood and vomit, shake so badly you can barely tie your boots because you are off to find more after you commit a felonious crime to support your habit, I would classify that as an "addiction".

Sorry mechanic, I don't want you to think that I'm trying to insult or disrespect you or your emotional struggle. It's just that, to me, tales of woe from an under-motivated stoner just don't cut it in the "addiction" arena.

I have so much to say about this subject from first hand experiences with addiction and the pain and suffering it causes that I'd be happy to hold a good convo via P.M.

As for Vudak, the comparison of video games is ridiculous at best. However, I found it a bit intriguing. 

Anyway, bummer about the Winehouse woman, but let's not forget that good people are biting the dust daily. Unfortunately they don't have record deals and will be forgotten. 

 

[mechanic]

Sorry mechanic, I don't want you to think that I'm trying to insult or disrespect you or your emotional struggle. It's just that, to me, tales of woe from an under-motivated stoner just don't cut it in the "addiction" arena.

Emotional struggle? Mine was purely physical, I was alot happier as a stoner.
I nearly wrecked myself from inhaling too much smoke all day every day for a long period of time. If you don't accept that as an addiction, I am not going to bother trying to change your mind. I am also not going to publicly enter a drug check list competition with you.

I'm certainly not going to enter an addiction severity competition with you. I've said my piece in this thread and now I'm done. If you don't like it, thats up to you. I'm sorry if I don't 'cut it'.

out

[Melvin]

Emotional struggle? Mine was purely physical, I was alot happier as a stoner.
I nearly wrecked myself from inhaling too much smoke all day every day for a long period of time. If you don't accept that as an addiction, I am not going to bother trying to change your mind. I am also not going to publicly enter a drug check list competition with you.

I'm certainly not going to enter an addiction severity competition with you. I've said my piece in this thread and now I'm done. If you don't like it, thats up to you. I'm sorry if I don't 'cut it'.

out

Wow, I was just about to answer the P.M. you sent me, but I can see you'd rather spout off here for all to see.

My post wasn't meant in anyway to be a one-up upon yours, nor do I want to get into any sort of competition regarding such a serious matter.

My post was merely there to perhaps shed light into your cave-like mind that REAL, CONSUMING addiction devours good people and makes them do utterly awful things, and in many cases, die horrible deaths.

Sorry you smoked too much pot and played too many video games (or whatever it was you did on the computer).

I'm not going to sit here and do this--->   with someone who is so self absorbed to see that his "addiction" was nothing more than a bad bout with the weed lifestyle.

EDIT: Sorry, "cave-like mind" was a stupid thing to say. I know that you're intelligent, perhaps that's why I'm a bit flabbergasted at what I see you post here.

[Melvin]

Sorry mechanic.

Just got a little bent out of shape is all.

 

EDIT: Holy crap, 4 "sorry's" in 3 posts. I must be getting soft. 

[mechanic]

hehe not at all sir, my appologies too if I offended you with my opinions. We all must be getting soft.

Addiction is a touchy subject for many of us. It ruins families and ends lives in my personal experience.

[morfiend]

Sorry mechanic.

Just got a little bent out of shape is all.

 

EDIT: Holy crap, 4 "sorry's" in 3 posts. I must be getting soft. 

 Melvin,


   atleast I know where your comming from with your previous comments!    I congradulate you on getting past your deamons and wish you well in the future.


   I suppose from your point of view that you wouldnt consider coffee to be addictive and thats ok too,as you said it depends on your definition of addiction.


  Now if I could only get off nicotine,I'd be a better man for it!



   

[Assi29]

At least she didn't teach school and manufacture meth. 


I wonder if Walt White would have played Aces High during his tough times.

[Jayhawk]

It has already kind of been mentioned, but I'll throw my $.02 in.  Marijuana is significantly less addictive than many other things (ie alcohol, nicotine, etc.).  Meaning, for most people, it's harder to become addicted to it.  However, it's absolutely possible to become addicted to anything that alters your brain's biochemistry when you take it.  So while there are plenty of lazy potheads, there are people who are physically dependent and addicted to marijuana.

[morfiend]

  So while there are plenty of lazy potheads, there are people who are physically dependent and addicted to marijuana.

 I tend to agree with the first statement but the second part I find hard to believe,physically dependent,really I'd like to see evidents to support that!

   Now as to the physiological side of addiction,that I believe,but the physical dependency part I dont buy for a second. Watch a person withdrawing from alcohol or opiates and you'll understand physical dependence,these poor people become violently sick and can even go into shock and die!




   

[Jayhawk]

 I tend to agree with the first statement but the second part I find hard to believe,physically dependent,really I'd like to see evidents to support that!

   Now as to the physiological side of addiction,that I believe,but the physical dependency part I dont buy for a second. Watch a person withdrawing from alcohol or opiates and you'll understand physical dependence,these poor people become violently sick and can even go into shock and die!




  

The evidence is based around the knowledge of how substances effect the synapses in your brain.  All those good things people like, food, sex, cocaine ( ), release a neurotransmitter called dopamine  at the synapses.  Dopamine is basically the "feel good neurotransmitter".  You brain can become used to the high levels of dopamine and adapt so it stops absorbing such high levels of dopamine, basically trying to bring your brain back into balance.  This is how tolerances are built up.  Withdraw comes when your brain had adapted to such high levels of dopamine (and other neurotrasmitters, serotonin is a big player) and you suddenly stop what was causing the high release.  This sudden stop of the high release at the presynaptic neuron, causes the levels of dopamine and seretonin to drop to drastically low levels; hence, withdraw symptoms.

Unfortunately, due to the archaic laws on marijuana, there is very little research on the substance.  We do know that the release of THC into the system causes a change in your biochemistry (the high).  Some argue marijuana releases dopamine, some say it doesn't, there really isn't a consensus on that subject that I'm aware of.  However, altering that brain chemistry strong enough or long enough can create a situation where your brain adapts to having the THC in your system and stopping it can cause withdraw symptoms.  This all varies greatly by the individual person.

Interestingly enough, parts of the brain actually have cannabinoid receptors.  We have receptors built into our brain specifically for THC.

[DMVIAGRA]

That's one less wreck from the U.K. hmm...

[morfiend]

 Jay,

 I completely understand about neuroreseptors and the effects on the brain but that doesnt cause "physical" dependents.

  You might want to read the lastest double blind study that was done in Canada on the use of cannabis and pain control! intersetingly enough we have reseptors for both cannabinoids and opiates in our brains but these dont cause the physical withdrawl symptoms.