Answer to the New King Tiger

[321BAR]

Karnak, I can't find any records, were the 90mm or 105mm built beyond the prototype stages? Everything I've found suggests that they were never developed enough before the war ended.

the 90mm M-18= M-36

[fbWldcat]

the 90mm M-18= M-36

Wasn't the M-36 built on the M-10 chassis design?

[Tank-Ace]

Yes, BAR is wrong on that count, M36 = upgunned and uparmored M10, not an M18. Maybe he thought that it was an upgrade of the M18 because 18 X 2 = 36  ?

M18 was never upgraded if I remember things right.

[321BAR]

Wasn't the M-36 built on the M-10 chassis design?

yeahyeah my slip up

[Wildcat1]

You've got your answer to the king tiger in the t-34/85

[fbWldcat]

You've got your answer to the king tiger in the t-34/85

Yeah, the T-34 is quick and it has a decent gun, but the moment a King Tiger, Panther or Tiger I gets a bead on it, it's history. It is no answer to the German tanks.

It could hold its own, but it can't excell in the role that the M-18, M-36 or Nashorn would.

[Butcher]

Simply put. M-18.
Yes, we've joked around about it for what seems like forever, but now that we have a new Heavy German Tank, we need something to counter it.
The Nashorn is a good idea, but it wasn't specifically designed to counter the threat of Hitler's panzer divisions in WWII.

The M-18 was almost 35 mph faster (according to Wiki), 25-30 mph (according to various other sources). The armor of the M-18 was almost equal to that of the Nashorn (almost).

The Nashorn has it beat with the 88mm cannon, but the M-18 could be fitted with the 90mm or 105mm variant. (I have looked up site after site, I couldn't find any with any info about those variants or if they were even used in the war, although I know prototypes were built). The 76mm cannon, iirc can destroy a King Tiger. 115mm penetration at 1k is more than enough to enter a King Tiger at various areas (without factoring in deflection).

This is just a sort of spitballing thread, if you have any info on the cannon variants please feel free to discuss.

I posted the stats on the M-18, Its 25mph cross country, so don't expect it to be anything fancy, M-18 was fitted with a few varities however the 76mm is all you will have, with the same ammunition as the M4A3(76) we have.

M10-
Crew 5
Combat weight 32.6 Tons
Max Speed cross country 20mph, Road 30mph
Armament: 3-inch gun M7 in Mount M5, .50 cal M2
Main gun ammunition: 54 rounds, 1,000 rounds .50cal
M62 APC muzzle velocity 2,600ft/sec penetration of 93mm at 500 yards @30 degrees
M93 HVAP muzzle velocity 3,400 ft/sec, pentration of 157mm at 500 yards @30 degrees
Armor: 57mm gun mantlet, 25mm Turret sides, 38mm UFH, 50mm LFH, 19mm upper hull side, 25mm lower hull side

M-18 specifications:
Crew: 5
Combat weight 20 tons
Max speed: cross country 25mph, road 50mph
Armament: M1A1 76mm in M62 combination mount + one .50cal
Muzzle Velocity: 2,600ft (M62 APC) 3,400ft (m93 HVAP)
Penetration: @500 yards @ 30 degrees 93mm (M62) 157mm (m93)
Armor: 13mm front, 13mm side, 13mm rear, 8mm top, 6mm floor

M-36 would be the choice, since we would get the M-10 and the M-36.

[321BAR]

butcher... notice the cross country speed of the King Tiger? its 4 mph. HTC uses road speeds not cross country <S>


the M18 would be rolling around at 50mph-60mph

[Tank-Ace]

How does getting the M18 give us the M10 and M36?

Yeah, the T-34 is quick and it has a decent gun, but the moment a King Tiger, Panther or Tiger I gets a bead on it, it's history. It is no answer to the German tanks.

It could hold its own, but it can't excell in the role that the M-18, M-36 or Nashorn would.

Exactly right. The T-34/85 was a stop-gap measure in response to the increasing ineffectiveness of the older 76.2mm guns. They chose the 85mm mostly because it was already in mass production, it was readily available, and because it had shown effective against all but the heaviest german tanks (at that time, they were Tiger I and the Panther, both of which can give a T-34 trouble when handled well).

The T-34/85 is by no means an 'answer' to the Tiger II. Its capable of killing them certinaly, but then again, so is every tank in the game, as is a halftrack. The Nashorn and the M-18 are both dedicated tank-destroyers. Both rely on different means to effectivly counter enemy tanks. While they aren't nessicarily any better than a T-34/85 overall, they do their specific job, engaging and dispatching enemy armor, more efficiently

[SmokinLoon]

Do not kid yourselves, the T34x was junk compared to a Panther, Tiger, or King Tiger.  Yeah, the speed, sloped armor, and decent 85mm main gun helped, but it was the fact that the Soviets had ten T34's to every single German tank that saved the day for the Red Army.  The German gunners could only reload so fast so all that needed to happen was one single T34 to get a flank shot or two within acceptable range and it was over.  Move up the next 10 Soviet tanks and keep on moving forward. 
     

[Furball]

SU-100 or 17 Pdr Achilles

[Butcher]

butcher... notice the cross country speed of the King Tiger? its 4 mph. HTC uses road speeds not cross country <S>


the M18 would be rolling around at 50mph-60mph

It would only be 50mph then.

[Butcher]

Yeah, the T-34 is quick and it has a decent gun, but the moment a King Tiger, Panther or Tiger I gets a bead on it, it's history. It is no answer to the German tanks.

It could hold its own, but it can't excell in the role that the M-18, M-36 or Nashorn would.

You can't possible pitch the T34/85 against the M-18 or Nashorn for a few reasons. One the T34/85 was a medium tank, designed to break through and engage, where the Nashorn was designed as a tank hunter on defense from a hull down position miles away for range shots. The M-18 required to flank tanks using speed, and hoping in Aces high there isn't a Fokker DR1 around to put the turret out of position.

All 3 tanks have different roles in Aces high, and the strategies for them have to be used accordingly. Surely you wouldn't take an M4(75) up for a GV Base defense, where as you wouldn't spawn an M-18 to an enemy airfield while ords are up.

Sure you could, but it would result in massive 200 whine

[Tank-Ace]

I would love to see the M18 and Nashorn be free tanks. Mostly thats just because I would enjoy opening up a 40lb on a group of spawn campers.

Nashorn: spawn in, one-shot somebody, die

M18: spawn in, kill someone in 2-3 hits, die

[Wildcat1]

I would love to see the M18 and Nashorn be free tanks. Mostly thats just because I would enjoy opening up a 40lb on a group of spawn campers.

Nashorn: spawn in, one-shot somebody, die

M18: spawn in, kill someone in 2-3 hits, die

The M-18 would maneuver to the flanks/rear, and be able to kill someone with one shot.

As good as the gun is, it would by no means be a stand-off weapon, like you're suggesting