Answer to the New King Tiger

[fbWldcat]

Simply put. M-18.
Yes, we've joked around about it for what seems like forever, but now that we have a new Heavy German Tank, we need something to counter it.
The Nashorn is a good idea, but it wasn't specifically designed to counter the threat of Hitler's panzer divisions in WWII.

The M-18 was almost 35 mph faster (according to Wiki), 25-30 mph (according to various other sources). The armor of the M-18 was almost equal to that of the Nashorn (almost).

The Nashorn has it beat with the 88mm cannon, but the M-18 could be fitted with the 90mm or 105mm variant. (I have looked up site after site, I couldn't find any with any info about those variants or if they were even used in the war, although I know prototypes were built). The 76mm cannon, iirc can destroy a King Tiger. 115mm penetration at 1k is more than enough to enter a King Tiger at various areas (without factoring in deflection).

This is just a sort of spitballing thread, if you have any info on the cannon variants please feel free to discuss.

[Karnak]

I think it is kinda silly to ask for a free unit that can relatively easily beat a 100 perk unit.  I'd be like demanding free Meteor Mk IIIs to counter the Me262 and forgetting the effect it would have on everything else.

[Pigslilspaz]

I thought it was mentioned somewhere that if the M-18 was added, it would definitely be perked.

[Raphael]

where is bar?

[Tank-Ace]

The M18's gun would be almost identicle to the M4A3(76)'s. Picture a slightly tougher M8 with a 76mm gun.

Nashorn trades off the speed for vast quantities of firepower. Mounting a KwK 43 L'71, it would be the equal of anything in the game for guns.

The M18 would require a flanking manuver, which is more difficult than most who have never had to do one would think. M8 vs Panzer is as close a comparison as you can get. The M8 has difficulties killing a panzer with its 37mm at combat ranges, even when, compared to the thickness of armor being penetrated, the M8 has the more powerfull gun.

The nashorn, on the other hand, would have the capability to engage the King Tiger from the front at ranges of upto 1800yds or so. I'd say a perk price of 4 would be good, at least initially. Leave it at that for 2 tours, and then adjust depending on the usage in the second tour (the stats from the first tour will be skewed by the usage it will get just because its new).

Would need a large perk price in the Midwar arena (the Nashorn went into service in 1943).

[321BAR]

where is bar?

well yesterday i was sleeping or getting it on with a hottie... today i ran out of cash so now im here



Jager a.k.a... ohh nevermind... The M-18's M1A1 IS the M4A3/76mm's gun. They are both M1A1 cannons.

Also flanking maneuvers are not hard to do in this game it just requires fire drawn elsewhere and a brain to accomplish. and dont try it in a valley

[Tank-Ace]

You're assuming the guy in the KingTiger isn't expierenced enough (and wary enough; in a King Tiger, if you're not overly cautious, you have a very rare brand of courage indeed) to watch his flanks, and that he doesn't have people screening him. Even when I'm in a Panzer, I check my sides before engaging a new target, or every 3 rounds if it takes longer than that to kill a tank. And a quartering shot likely won't be enough to kill or even wound a King Tiger.

Not saying that the M18 wouldn't be nice, and very usefull. Would love to have it in the game.... eventually. I'm just saying that the Nashorn better fits the title of the thread. While it likely wouldn't be as multipurpose, and outside of its narrow specialized skill of engaging enemy heavy tanks it would probably fare worse than the M18, theres no denying that for the specific task of hunting down King Tigers, the Nashorn is better equiped.

[321BAR]

You're assuming the guy in the KingTiger isn't expierenced enough (and wary enough; in a King Tiger, if you're not overly cautious, you have a very rare brand of courage indeed) to watch his flanks, and that he doesn't have people screening him. Even when I'm in a Panzer, I check my sides before engaging a new target, or every 3 rounds if it takes longer than that to kill a tank. And a quartering shot likely won't be enough to kill or even wound a King Tiger.

no im saying a flanking maneuver is easy to accomplish till you pull the trigger and give yourself away. getting near the side of a tank is not the only part of a flanking maneuver. you ever maneuver 5 T34s to the side of a tank battle and wipe the enemy line clean?

[Tank-Ace]

No, but I've manuvered a company's worth of panzers and M4's during a mission  . We broke a personal base capture time record with that one IIRC. Something like 6 minutes from spawn-in to base capture.

But I'm talking more of an individual-friendly solution. Fact is some just don't have access to skilled players that are willing to help them out. Fortunatly I do, so its sort of a non issue (personally anyway), I just prefer the Nashorn to the M18 on a sentimental level. Hell, I even have a squadie that is willing, sometimes eager, to drive an M3 for my Panther or Tiger and spot targets/resupply me.


But can you just admit that, as an individual use weapon to destroy a KingTiger, the Nashorn is superior to the M18? It would please me ever so much to hear it.

[SmokinLoon]

I thought it was mentioned somewhere that if the M-18 was added, it would definitely be perked.

I dont know what for.  The M8 could knock that thing out from 1600 yards away.  The M-18 would be an M8 with a M4/76 gun, thats it. 

[Karnak]

Tiger II already has counters, namely the Tiger II, Ju87, Fw190F-8 and probably anything that can lug a 500kg or 1000lb bomb, maybe even a 250kg or 500lb bomb.

[SmokinLoon]

Instead of "countering" the King Tiger via another tank, especially a JS-2 or other such thing, just approach the issue by going back down the spectrum.  Dont make it an issue of "to be able to knock out the King", but rather adding another way to kill the King.   

Here is what HTC is hopefully doing with regards to GV's, IMO:

Priority: Re-modeling the Panzer IV with F and H model 75mm guns available.

Secondary: Adding a British EW or MW tank such as the Cromwell (w/ choice of 6 Pdr and 75mm), or the Valentine (w/ choice of 2 Pdr or 6 Pdr); adding the StuG III and/or the Hetzer; adding the Su-100; adding in the SdKfz 251/9 (7.5cm infantry cannon, similar to LVT4 abilities), 251/22 (7.5 cm PaK40 L/46, same gun as Pzr IV H).

Tertiary: M10, M18, Type 97 Shinhoto Chi-Ha, Char-B1, Panzer III J, the M7 Priest or maybe the M4/105 (or better yet the Sexton w/ 25 Pdr).  Somewhere in there I'd like to see a gv w/ a heavy mortar mounted and be able to be aimed in similar fashion to the naval guns (indirect fire).   

     

[fbWldcat]

If the M-18 were added, I could see a small park price being put on it, definitely could be added alongside the Nashorn. The M-18 would give GVers the Scoot and Shoot option of attack and the Nashorn would give the ability to overwhelm anything with its superior firepower.

I dont know what for.  The M8 could knock that thing out from 1600 yards away.  The M-18 would be an M8 with a M4/76 gun, thats it. 

I hope you aren't saying the M8 could knock out the Tiger II. The M-18 would be faster than the M8 (depending on which information you have), more responsive, and the 76mm gun would give it a strong advantage over the M8, unlike the meager step that you describe. The M8 with the M4/76 gun isn't something you'd laugh at.

Karnak, I can't find any records, were the 90mm or 105mm built beyond the prototype stages? Everything I've found suggests that they were never developed enough before the war ended.

[SmokinLoon]

If the M-18 were added, I could see a small park price being put on it, definitely could be added alongside the Nashorn. The M-18 would give GVers the Scoot and Shoot option of attack and the Nashorn would give the ability to overwhelm anything with its superior firepower.

I hope you aren't saying the M8 could knock out the Tiger II. The M-18 would be faster than the M8 (depending on which information you have), more responsive, and the 76mm gun would give it a strong advantage over the M8, unlike the meager step that you describe. The M8 with the M4/76 gun isn't something you'd laugh at.

Karnak, I can't find any records, were the 90mm or 105mm built beyond the prototype stages? Everything I've found suggests that they were never developed enough before the war ended.

The M8 could knock out the M18.  The M18 has no more armor than the M8.

[Rob52240]

+1