Spixteen perked ?

[grizz441]

It depends on which P-38.  The discrepancy is found usually with the G and the J model, not the L so you can't lump in all the P-38s as each one has it's own tale to tell.

ack-ack

Okay the 38J crowd then.   

[Dead Man Flying]

Any ideas on a better quantitative metric which one can easily get data for?

Not really.  It's just really hard to try to prove what you're saying with the data available.  The total number of kills can be a function of time played as much as anything.  You can still get 100+ kills with a 0.5 K/D ratio if you're flying for 100 hours a month.  The graph just isn't very informative with respect to pilot skill.

enlighten us then...

I'll try.  Just to give a personal example by hopping into the Way Back Machine, there was a time where myself (flying as Calamari), ManeTMP, and Vulcan constituted an overwhelming majority of the Typhoon kills in the game.  This wasn't because we were particularly expert in the Typhoon, but rather because literally nobody flew Typhoons back then.  I'm just making up these numbers, but let's say that between the three of us, we produced 500 kills per tour in the Tiffie.  Since so few people flew the plane, the total number of kills was, say, 800 - meaning that the three of us represented 62.5% of the total kills by that plane.  This is without regard to K/D.

Now let's say more people started flying the Typhoon.  Suddenly the number of kills doubles in a given tour, but Calamari, ManeTMP, and Vulcan continue to fly as much as they did before.  They wrack up another 500 kills between them, but now the overall number of kills by Typhoon has increased from 800 to 1600.  Now the three players represent 31.25% of the total number of Typhoon kills.  Nothing has changed skill-wise between them, and if anything they've gotten better with experience, yet they represent a smaller percentage of the overall number of kills.

[Lusche]

I would like to point out that the stats point to the majority of kills were made by 4 people in the k4.

Quick glance at tour 138:
Top 10% players in K4 had 70% of the kills in that plane.
Top 10% players in 16 had 66% of kills in that plane.

Not that much of a difference to me, but I'm too tired to think about it.

[waystin2]

You, Zoom, and 2 other pigs in Bf109K4's vs my Spit16 best of 5.  If you cannot accept this generous challenge, then you have proven my point.  In fact I am hoping you skirt away from it because winning a 4v1 best of 5 against 4 vets will be quite a task, even for me in the easiest plane in the game.

I was trying to duplicate a situation where you as a good pilot could happen upon 6 random planes and show me that the Spit 16 EZ-ness would help a great pilot win such a battle.  The conditions have now changed to 4 planes with your choice of opponent's aircraft.  This is what I am talking about Grizz.  It's the pilot that makes the plane EZ, not the plane itself.  You are making great pilot choices in your counter offer, something that a newb has not learned to do.  4 planes/4 pilots accepted, with random planes no perks is my counter.  This is my best offer to help you prove the 16's EZ-ness.  Mind you by negotiating this test of the plane downward in difficulty it is becoming less EZ looking by the minute in most folks eyes and not the super-powered uber plane that some describe.

Much respect for staying at the table,

Way

[Shuffler]

Its statistical record?  Go look at the chart that Lusche posted earlier in this thread.  Fewer people fly the HurriC than fly the 109K, and it has a comparatively lower K/D ratio.  The N1K has a lower K/D too, though more people fly it than the 109K.  The Spit VIII, Spit IX, Seafire and Spit V, all sporting the uber Hispanos, see lower usage and possess lower K/D ratios than the 109K.

I get what you're trying to say, but you can't quantify it.  The statistical record doesn't support your claim.

Oh I think it does. Factor in that most new folks probably fly the spit because it is easier to fly yet their gunnery is not up to snuff.

[grizz441]

I was trying to duplicate a situation where you as a good pilot could happen upon 6 random planes and show me that the Spit 16 EZ-ness would help a great pilot win such a battle.  The conditions have now changed to 4 planes with your choice of opponent's aircraft.  This is what I am talking about Grizz.  It's the pilot that makes the plane EZ, not the plane itself.  You are making great pilot choices in your counter offer, something that a newb has not learned to do.  4 planes/4 pilots accepted, with random planes no perks is my counter.  This is my best offer to help you prove the 16's EZ-ness.  Mind you by negotiating this test of the plane downward in difficulty it is becoming less EZ looking by the minute in most folks eyes and not the super-powered uber plane that some describe.

Much respect for staying at the table,
Way

You'd rather take 4 random planes than 4 K4s?  Okay done.

Someone please randomize our 5 matchups.   

[Changeup]

I would like to point out that I was NOT on the K4 list or the spixteen list.   

I fly the humble, average 9.  She does nothing great, she can't run from you, she can't run you down, she can't out climb you, she can't out turn all of you, she takes damage poorly, she can't use superior roll rate, she is just below average at altitude above 17k, she can't out dive you....shes an average girl....but she has HUGE "eyes"!!!!! 

All spits were not created equal.  That is my attempt at explaining away my suckage....now, who wants to win a fight?

Changeup

[68ZooM]

You, Zoom, and 2 other pigs in Bf109K4's vs my Spit16 best of 5.  If you cannot accept this generous challenge, then you have proven my point.  In fact I am hoping you skirt away from it because winning a 4v1 best of 5 against 4 vets will be quite a task, even for me in the easiest plane in the game.

sorry you feel the spotlight is fading and must prove something to someone Grizz. i rarely fly K4's and Spit16's, maybe twice each last tour so i doubt I'm up to "your" level of what a skilled Pilot "should" be, but then again this is a game and I'm not 12 nor does the game or world revolve around me.  continue with the banter now.  

[Changeup]

You'd rather take 4 random planes than 4 K4s?  Okay done.

Someone please randomize our 5 matchups.   

Grizz, Way....4 K4s is fine.....random is less uber.  Leave it

[grizz441]

 continue with the banter now.  

Thank you, I will. 

[grizz441]

Grizz, Way....4 K4s is fine.....random is less uber.  Leave it

4 random planes no perked, that was what waystin wanted.  It's a done deal, I accepted already. 

[Changeup]

4 random planes no perked, that was what waystin wanted.  It's a done deal, I accepted already. 

I urge you both to reconsider

[waystin2]

You'd rather take 4 random planes than 4 K4s?  Okay done.

Someone please randomize our 5 matchups.   

Let me be specific, random to you Sir.  You won't know what is coming out until you see it.  My thought is like you, we Pigs have our EZ planes that we like to fly so you may see a Spit 9, Hellcat, K-4 and a Spit 8 in the first round.  Who knows.  If that is acceptable to you, then we can get our testing done.  Your help is appreciated in running this experiment.  Perhaps we are on to something here and we can establish a criteria for what is truly EZ.

[ink]

Let me be specific, random to you Sir.  You won't know what is coming out until you see it.  My thought is like you, we Pigs have our EZ planes that we like to fly so you may see a Spit 9, Hellcat, K-4 and a Spit 8 in the first round.  Who knows.  If that is acceptable to you, then we can get our testing done.  Your help is appreciated in running this experiment.  Perhaps we are on to something here and we can establish a criteria for what is truly EZ.

cmon you seriously believe that a spit 16 is not easy mode 

[Ardy123]

I'll try.  Just to give a personal example by hopping into the Way Back Machine, there was a time where myself (flying as Calamari), ManeTMP, and Vulcan constituted an overwhelming majority of the Typhoon kills in the game.  This wasn't because we were particularly expert in the Typhoon, but rather because literally nobody flew Typhoons back then.  I'm just making up these numbers, but let's say that between the three of us, we produced 500 kills per tour in the Tiffie.  Since so few people flew the plane, the total number of kills was, say, 800 - meaning that the three of us represented 62.5% of the total kills by that plane.  This is without regard to K/D.

Now let's say more people started flying the Typhoon.  Suddenly the number of kills doubles in a given tour, but Calamari, ManeTMP, and Vulcan continue to fly as much as they did before.  They wrack up another 500 kills between them, but now the overall number of kills by Typhoon has increased from 800 to 1600.  Now the three players represent 31.25% of the total number of Typhoon kills.  Nothing has changed skill-wise between them, and if anything they've gotten better with experience, yet they represent a smaller percentage of the overall number of kills.

I'll buy that argument, but still I'm struggling to find a 'quantitative' way to measure it. I know that 'bunnies' in a spit 16 will kill 'bunnies' in a k4, but not having two of me, all I can do is state it. Now I guess I could publish a graph that looks at the distribution of kills sans the 10% percent, normalized by the number of flights (a kills per flight ratio). But again, this data is easily manipulated by circumstance.