theoretical discussion on artillery in the game

[Tank-Ace]

It also makes the guy more likely to use his artillery as it was historicly used (a long-ranged, area support weapon). If he wants to take his hummel, drive upto the town, fire two rounds, and then immediatly get popped by an M8, then thats his concern not mine.

[Reschke]

@ Wiley's last comment:

It just makes it more of an issue for those not wanting to participate in the combined arms approach to the GAME. I wouldn't waste my time in a self propelled gun just to get smoked within firing 5-10 rounds that were ineffectual at worst and barely damaging the base/town at best.

FAC/Spotters and people working together would make that aspect of the game work and work well. Just as it would with people on the opposite side doing the exact same thing.

[Wiley]

I've been thinking on it, and I believe an elegant solution to it would be to have the impact craters show direction.  Basically have the higher bank on the impact crater away from the direction it was fired, and if possible have it be a longer impact crater the lower the trajectory is.  Basically a long oval crater would be close, a rounder crater would be far.

It might be a teeny bit gamy, but I like that a lot better than having tracers all the way.  A possible compromise (not sure if this would be easier or harder to coad) would be to have a tracer show up say 1000 yards from impact.  This would also give some directional indication without saying 'ARTILLERY BATTERY HERE!'

I'd be curious to see how it worked out.  I could see a well organized group of say, 4 GVs and a spotter doing a lot of damage with a couple wirbles, an artillery battery, and a tank possibly for cover.

Wiley.

[321BAR]

I've been thinking on it, and I believe an elegant solution to it would be to have the impact craters show direction.  Basically have the higher bank on the impact crater away from the direction it was fired, and if possible have it be a longer impact crater the lower the trajectory is.  Basically a long oval crater would be close, a rounder crater would be far.

It might be a teeny bit gamy, but I like that a lot better than having tracers all the way.  A possible compromise (not sure if this would be easier or harder to coad) would be to have a tracer show up say 1000 yards from impact.  This would also give some directional indication without saying 'ARTILLERY BATTERY HERE!'

I'd be curious to see how it worked out.  I could see a well organized group of say, 4 GVs and a spotter doing a lot of damage with a couple wirbles, an artillery battery, and a tank possibly for cover.

Wiley.

or you can listen for the long range THUMP, follow the tracer, and triangulate his position and kill him...

[Wiley]

or you can listen for the long range THUMP, follow the tracer, and triangulate his position and kill him...

Hmm...  Hadn't taken audio into account.  That could work just fine too.  Actually, if it was just a normal tracer like a tank round, that might be good enough.  The streams from the CVs IMO would make it too easy to trace back.  A normal tank style tracer wouldn't be as obvious...

Wiley.

[321BAR]

Hmm...  Hadn't taken audio into account.  That could work just fine too.  Actually, if it was just a normal tracer like a tank round, that might be good enough.  The streams from the CVs IMO would make it too easy to trace back.  A normal tank style tracer wouldn't be as obvious...

Wiley.

[Tank-Ace]

or you can listen for the long range THUMP, follow the tracer, and triangulate his position and kill him...

Wonder how effective counter-battery fire would be. I mean (depending on the size of the shell) you're going to need at least a near-direct hit to damage or kill an SPG.

[321BAR]

Wonder how effective counter-battery fire would be. I mean (depending on the size of the shell) you're going to need at least a near-direct hit to damage or kill an SPG.

or just up an M3/75 and go shoot his butt...

[Tilt]

Assuming land mode is a non starter

The vehicle has an additional spotter  POV (to the commander, gunner & pintle) which can be released from the vehicle (e.g pressing "O" when stationary) and can be "walked" to a position where the spotter can see the intended target.

If the vehicle is a long way from target this is gonna take some time but (just like the dedicated bomber pilot who ups way behind freindly lines to gain alt) its the price that has to be paid for  being able to spot for a field piece located well to the rear.

The player can move between the various POV's just as he can now but the spotter is only mobile when the player is at that POV and the Artilery is only mobile when the POV is there. Either is stationary and vulnerable when the player is not there.

Whenever the spotter stops for some silly reason he always looks through his binoculars and continues to do so until he starts to move again.

The artilery can only be fired from the gunner position or the commanders position but only the gunner sees the range and direction of the gun.

Gunner fires and the player changes to the spotter POV. Notes the impact point through his binoculars and returns to the gunner POV to adjust range and direction and fires again............. rinse and repeat.

Spotters and vehicle are seen as drunks and vehicles are seen now (by other players) with what ever icon setting is prevelent. However when another player looks directly (and it has to be directly) at the location of a stationary spotter he is rewarded with a "flash" of reflected light from the spotters binoculars (even  when the sun is not ideally positioned for this) no matter what the range (provided there is no hard objects between)

This is a temporary flash and the other player has to look away then look toward the spotter again to get any subsequent flashes.

Any shell hitting either a town object or a field object causes the town icon or the field icon to flash twice and then stop flashing unless hit again or unless enemy vehicles or aircraft are with appropriate range.(actually this would work for  CV based gunnery as well)

If the spotter is killed thats it he is lost...... there is no replacement (except perhaps for the re arm pad?) The only POV's remaining are the commander, gunner and pintle. If the artilery piece is lost/destroyed then the spotter POV could remain but will not have any access to another gunner POV.

[Tank-Ace]

Tilt, that seems like a major handicap. You're asking the players to choose between a muti-day sortie to walk their spotter the 7 miles to the target so they can aim accuratly and remain in relative safety, or a short-ranged, short-lived sortie so he can go into battery in a timely manner.


If he can only move when his spotter is in the vehicle, the handicap is certinally to much.

[Tilt]

If he can only move when his spotter is in the vehicle, the handicap is certinally to much.

He can only move the spotter (independant of the vehicle) when the POV is the spotter. Other wise yes there is a penalty to having both xtreme range and a spotter and that is the time it takes to put the spotter inplace.

in game this is a choice the player can make..........the player may also choose to place the artilery behind a hill and climb the spotter to the top of the hill and look at the target thru his binoculars.

[Tank-Ace]

But you're suggesting the actually artillery unit should still be able to move without the spotter? If not then I don't see how this would work. You're saying that artillery should get 0 chance for survival unless hes using it as a direct fire weapon.

And really? Making the spotter walk 7 miles if someone wants to be realistic in his use of our cartoon equipment?

[Tilt]

But you're suggesting the actually artillery unit should still be able to move without the spotter? If not then I don't see how this would work. You're saying that artillery should get 0 chance for survival unless hes using it as a direct fire weapon.
And really? Making the spotter walk 7 miles if someone wants to be realistic in his use of our cartoon equipment?

When the player changes his/her POV to the commander position then the vehicle can be driven as normal. Changing the POV to the spotter POV then the vehicle will slow to a stop (with engine running if not properly switched off).

When the player is in the spotter POV it may be walked (or run?) as a player walks or runs a chute now.  If you want to walk the spotter 7 miles at walking pace interpesersed with runs (via WEP limited to 10? minute duration and a period to recover) then it takes the appropriate period to get there.

This period would be subject to what speed HTC model walking and running pace at.

[Tank-Ace]

You do realize your encouraging their use as direct fire weapons?

[Tilt]

You do realize your encouraging their use as direct fire weapons?

It s not my opinion................. but if they were so used then they become vulnerable to direct return of fire as they should be.