Artillery?

[Skyguns MKII]

My Biggest problem with Artillery is how can you make it historically inaccurate as it was?

I'm sure its programable, i remember when the osty used to fire straight shots and the second round would always follow the exact path of the first and so on. They have it different now. I'm sure theres facts we can pull.

[321BAR]

Like I said. Give us the Hummel or the M12. Since they'res 6"ers, woul would probably get the shell trail and land gunner mode.

why? so you can shoot 10 rounds of 155 vs the Priest's armament of 60-70 105 rounds?

[Butcher]

why? so you can shoot 10 rounds of 155 vs the Priest's armament of 60-70 105 rounds?

What about the M4(105) or StuG-10.5cm - both would make good direct artillery tanks, and enclosed armor, however I am still interested to see how accurate the shots will be also splash damage would have to be tweaked, Mainly what I've been doing is firing a 75mm round in the middle of the road and letting the splash damage take out clusters of buildings at a time, however if they can make the artillery inaccurate (unless close range) then I am all for it, problem is the Easy Mode of Artillery is what I don't want to see, one person at 6k away could take out an entire base without making it flash vs now we have to bring the tanks to the town to barrage it.

[HORSEMAN]

Butcher,
   As always you raise great points! In WWII there were many varibles that played a role in how accurate artillery was as you know toward the end of the war German artillery had many problems with the rounds not being milled properly or the brass ( or rather lack of the metal brass ) casings would expand in the breech making consistant fire a serious problem. But in normal conditions or even OPTIMUM condition's WWII artillery still wasn't overly reliable. As far as settings in arena, and how one person might take down a base, my argument remains one of map size and quantity of bases. This may be getting off of the "beaten path" but if you reduce the number of bases, it makes it significantly harder to "take a base" or in effect apply a ridiculous amount of damage without being detected. Everyone strives for realism, but I know of NO theatre in WWII that had so many bases in such close proximity as some of the maps we have here. Reduce the bases, ( even if you expand the area ) and you force manned targets, increase confrontation and degree of difficulty, then by definition you are dedicated to apply strategy...if you want to win that is! To proove my point what is one of the biggest complaints in the arena? Take a base and then it is left unmanned only to be lost again. This game in my opinion should not be checkers...it should be chess! That would be why WWI took the allies 4 years to win. I welcome any and all input guys...especially yours Butcher. By the way...I am sure glad I have the privilage to fight with you and not against you!

HORSEMAN

[HORSEMAN]

That would be why WWI took the allies 4 years to win.
Sorry for the typo WWII LOL

[Tank-Ace]

Alright, useless isn't the right word. But how effective are 5" guns on town when firing BVR? And they're about 127mm's.

So it all comes down to wether we want the 105mm sherman, or if we want an actual artillery piece, to be used as such.


And I'm sure we can coad randomization into the shell's flight path. Bullets have it, why not shells?

[SDGhalo]

If you can't destroy buildings with splash damage, that means you'll need many guns firing many rounds according to a spotter. You'll have to get each gun on target 1 at a time, since you can't know whos shell fell short, whos is long, and whos is dead on target. Very time consuming and gives defenders a long time to kill the spotter or just up an M8 kill the artillery.

well to tell you the truth its not hard to get all those guns on target.

1. The spotter will call in on the battery for one gun to range in. in this case using the (land mode) like system

2. if he's off or if the spotter wants the rounds in closer he would just have to bracket him

3. once the spotter likes the shot he would call in the number of rounds during Fire for Effect.

4. by this time the leader gunner gives his range and bearing. and all the guns fire the amount of rounds the spotter has given.

see if you decide to start up a Field Battery you just need to make sure your spotter is experianced with calling in indirect Fire and he can help make the group be very effective  with 105, 155, 25 pdr, anything, if HTC brings in the Artillery   

[Tank-Ace]

Alright, hadn't thought of that. Would work depending on the range (a degree can be quite large depending on how far out you go). At the end of their range, they could easily be pouring fire onto an empty hill

[AHTbolt]

Calling in and adjusting artillery fire is one of the easiest things to do did it from the top of a tank for many years. Theirs several ways to call a fire mission and if you have registered your TRP's you don't even have to hove eyes on the target. And in real life artillery shells leave no trail in the air.

Just an idea on using artillery in the game, you chose M7 105mm you spawn in with 4 gun battery and after you set your guns you grab a jeep that has a clipboard with a map of bases that are in range of your guns and a compass readout and 4 buttons up, down, left, right. And a button that says adjust fire, you push that button and one gun fires one round and you adjust with the other buttons. After you get on target you have a Fire for effect button and a box to set the number of rounds say you want 20 rounds you would type in 20 and punch the fire buttons and your guns fire 5 rounds per gun. Its just a thought pretty easy and close to real life.

[Tank-Ace]

I'm not sure if HTC can coad, what is in effect, a drone 6 miles away from you. Not saying they can't do it, but it seems that such a system would be extremely complex to coad.

[AHTbolt]

That's true but a 4 gun battery would be really the only way artillery would work.

[Tank-Ace]

I keep saying this..... 150mm range of guns. Larger blast radius and higher damage means that it is more effective against town, carriers, and damn near every target. Theres a good chance we could kill lighter armored vehicles such as the M8, and maybe the panzer, with a near-direct hit.

It would eliminate the need for 'batteries' tied to a jeep spotter.

[ToeTag]

What about this?

Artillery would require a spotter vehicle.

The closer the vehicle is to the intended target the more accurate the arty fire would be.

The Arty vehicles would have a map of the town, base or strat as part of its fire control.  You would simply click on the map where you want your rounds to land.

No spotter and no fire.

A close spotter and you can count on your rounds landing within a 25 yard perimeter.

Use a spotter that is farther away and your rounds may land within a 75 yard perimeter and so on.

[SDGhalo]

Just an idea on using artillery in the game, you chose M7 105mm you spawn in with 4 gun battery and after you set your guns you grab a jeep that has a clipboard with a map of bases that are in range of your guns and a compass readout and 4 buttons up, down, left, right. And a button that says adjust fire, you push that button and one gun fires one round and you adjust with the other buttons. After you get on target you have a Fire for effect button and a box to set the number of rounds say you want 20 rounds you would type in 20 and punch the fire buttons and your guns fire 5 rounds per gun. Its just a thought pretty easy and close to real life.

huh i guess when it comes to calling in fire the canadians and americans are different when i was on work up for overseas last year. our Arti guys were telling us when you call in fire for effect. each gun would fire theamount of rounds.

so instead of saying 20 rounds fire for effect, we  would say 5 rounds and each gun would fire 5 rounds, and they would stagger there shots so it was a none stop barrage no break in the mission where the enemy was getting hit.

and the canadians still follow alot of Artillery Tactics from the Brits  

[skorpion]

If you can't destroy buildings with splash damage, that means you'll need many guns firing many rounds according to a spotter. You'll have to get each gun on target 1 at a time, since you can't know whos shell fell short, whos is long, and whos is dead on target. Very time consuming and gives defenders a long time to kill the spotter or just up an M8 kill the artillery.

So by using the more effective direct fire method, you've defeated the purpose of artillery, and might as well ask for the 105mm on the sherman if all you want is the larger cannon, since you'll be using it in the same way.

Guns in the 150mm range are also more likely to recieve shell trails than guns in the 105mm range. This gives a better chance of detection by following the shells screaming in. It would also help encourage using them as long range, indirect fire weapons, since sitting 7 miles back of your target is a lot safer when your own fire gives away your possition.

They'll also be more effective against CV's than a 105mm weapon. It would encourage CV's to be used in a more historicly-accurate way. They would also help prevent quick smash-and grab base captures, as well as the NOE undefended base sneaks. You can fire on town anywhere from within a 7-10 mile radius, meaning the attackers have to work harder, or come up with other methods to take the base.

So to simplify, 105mm isn't worth it (IMO) for 4 main reasons.
1) lower effectivness against town using indirect fire, and hence a likely use of these guns for direct fire, which is almost opposite their intended purpose.

2) easier detection and and counter battery fire, as well as increased likelyhood of historical usage.

3) increased effectiveness against CV's means they can't sneak to within 6000yds of the shore, launch fighters, and quickly horde the base before anyone notices them.

4) They would also be more effective against countering the horde and NOE sneaks due to their larger blast-radius and longer range (you can shell the map room from spawn-in). It will require greater strategic preperation and planning to take the base. But on the upside (from the WiN teH wArz  ! dweeb's prespective) you'll also be able to smash up targets such as shore batterys, towns, hangers, etc. with greater ease.


It will also encourage strategey such as out flanking a tough-to-take base so you have multiple spawns for the enemy to watch, giving your artillery a better chance to survive an hit the town and base. Artillery will add many new and interesting aspects to the game, as well as encouraging out-fighting and out-smarting your opponents instead of out-manning them.

the M4/75 HE rounds kill quite effectivly from over 1k away. what makes you think something bigger couldnt kill with splash damage?  105mm would be perfect for town killing.