Fix ENY

[guncrasher]

Yeah you are correct, it is not totally without value anymore, but its value has been reduced since we have been handcuffed by the 12 hr. side balancing restriction.

 

semp

[grizz441]

semp

Dumb response.

[RTHolmes]

I dont get whats broken - how is being outnumbered 10:5 better than 20:10?

[Tank-Ace]

We're talking more about  10:7:7, which is better than 20:14:14. While the percentage one side has over the others may not increase, the total numbers advantage does. Where 10 players isn't a big advantage, 30 is, even if percentages remain the same.

[Wiley]

I dont get whats broken - how is being outnumbered 10:5 better than 20:10?

When the numbers are higher, there's more chance of a group being able to gang hard on one guy or a few guys.  Take a 2v1 for example.  The maximum number of people that can be attacking the outnumbered guy is 2.  In a 4v2, if one guy ties up the second low side member, it's possible to have a 1v1 and a 3v1.  As the numbers go up, the pool of available 'free' people to gang one guy goes up as well.

Not to say it's planned or it always happens that way, but the potential is there and it happens often enough.  Look at the next furball you go into.  Somewhere in it there will probably be 3 or 4 guys on 1 enemy.  If your side has the numbers, it leaves more people potentially 'free' to mob one or two guys, then move onto the next unfortunate guy who's slow enough to get caught by them.

Wiley.

[RTHolmes]

in your 4v2 example, going 2v1 and 2v1 will give a better outcome than 1v1 and 3v1, so overall the odds are the same if the 4 do the smart thing.

still not convinced.

[Wiley]

in your 4v2 example, going 2v1 and 2v1 will give a better outcome than 1v1 and 3v1, so overall the odds are the same if the 4 do the smart thing.

still not convinced.

I disagree.  If the 1 on the high side is competent enough to tie up the other guy in the 1v1 long enough for the 3 to kill the other guy, now the outnumbered guy is looking down the wrong end of a 4v1.  How is that not an easier situation for the high number side?

Wiley.

[Tank-Ace]

I already told you: As total numbers increase, the same sized advantage in numbers represents a smaller and smaller advantage percentage wise, which is what ENY goes off of.


with 150 people in an arena,  numbers being 56, 44, and 50 (a relativly small advantage), ENY is fine (just assume it is).

But it won't be enough when you double the numbers, because 112, 88, and 100 gives the same percentages as 56, 44, and 50, even though the numbers advantage has increased from 12 to 24. With twice the numbers advantage, ENY remains the same.

[RTHolmes]

I disagree.  If the 1 on the high side is competent enough to tie up the other guy in the 1v1 long enough for the 3 to kill the other guy, now the outnumbered guy is looking down the wrong end of a 4v1.  How is that not an easier situation for the high number side?

assuming that the 2 fights are close enough that the 3 can kill the 1, and get over to the 1v1 before its over ... I'm not sure. my gut tells me that overall the law of diminishing returns still applies, which means spreading out the advantage is the best tactic.

on the scale of the MA where fights/bases have decent separation, and there are unlimited lives it certainly does apply. eg. sending 60 guys to take bases one at a time certainly works, but sending 30 each to 2 bases will take bases quicker. the implication of this distribution of advantage is that the relative numbers are still the important thing, which is what ENY is based on...

[Wiley]

assuming that the 2 fights are close enough that the 3 can kill the 1, and get over to the 1v1 before its over ... I'm not sure. my gut tells me that overall the law of diminishing returns still applies, which means spreading out the advantage is the best tactic.

on the scale of the MA where fights/bases have decent separation, and there are unlimited lives it certainly does apply. eg. sending 60 guys to take bases one at a time certainly works, but sending 30 each to 2 bases will take bases quicker. the implication of this distribution of advantage is that the relative numbers are still the important thing, which is what ENY is based on...

Assuming an overall plan, I agree, spreading the advantage is the best tactic.  However, that's not what we're dealing with in the 'wild' of an arena like the LWMA.

In the MA, you've got a bunch of people, all with wildly varying skill levels and goals.  Very few of them are capable of working in concert on a large scale beyond all showing up in the same place.

While sending 30 into two bases will take them quicker assuming the goal of all 60 people is to take bases, you're correct.  However, what we wind up with in the MA is basically a hodgepodge of people doing different things.

I just think having a larger pool of people who outnumber the other side means a bigger advantage than the same percentage of advantage with fewer numbers.

If you've got a relatively balanced 10v10 in an area, and 5 more guys come in on one side, it's unbalanced.  If you've got a relatively balanced 10v10 in an area and 10 or 20 more guys come in on one side, it's pretty much instant slaughter.

To me that's the reason why the absolute number has more of an effect.

Wiley.

[RTHolmes]

If you've got a relatively balanced 10v10 in an area, and 5 more guys come in on one side, it's unbalanced.  If you've got a relatively balanced 10v10 in an area and 10 or 20 more guys come in on one side, it's pretty much instant slaughter.

To me that's the reason why the absolute number has more of an effect.

that example is also a higher relative advantage, and would therefore attract higher ENY.

[Tank-Ace]

Holmes, read my posts, they explain why ENY needs fixing.

[HawkerMKII]

grizz there's only a few people who will switch sides to help the "low side", most of the people who switch will switch to horde with whoever side is hording at the time.  and you want to give these people a 2 hour switch time?  that's what happened last night when the knights won the war.  a bunch of players switched to get the "free" perkies.  and it happened the night before when the knights won the war.  actually it happens almost every night, when people will switch to horde as usual.

if most people were to switch to lower eny countries as you sometimes imply, they would've never been eny on any country for more than a couple of minutes as players would realize this and switch.

semp

12 hour on a side to get perks......

[RTHolmes]

Holmes, read my posts, they explain why ENY needs fixing.

I have and I'm still not sure what you're getting at. can you explain how higher numbers increase the advantage even more than just the relative advantage?

eg. how is 240:200 easier than 120:100? same relative advantage, same ENY, larger absolute advantage.

[Wiley]

that example is also a higher relative advantage, and would therefore attract higher ENY.

But that is looking at just one area of the arena.  Having 20 guys available to start running around is going to be easier to find with a higher total number in the arena than with a relatively low total population.

Wiley.