Stuka Pilot. excellent book. link included.

[33Vortex]

Interesting discussion, but as always... what people say reflect infinitely more upon themselves than what it does on the topic. So whatever your contribution to the topic is, it's meagre at best in comparison to what you tell us about your self.

Just for the sake of turning some heads upside down. The truth does not know the boundaries of your imagination.  

[pervert]

I can accept that he was a great pilot.  I can't get to the point I can say I have any respect for him at all.

Well I can respect that 

[Guppy35]

Interesting discussion, but as always... what people say reflect infinitely more upon themselves than what it does on the topic. So whatever your contribution to the topic is, it's meagre at best in comparison to what you tell us about your self.

Just for the sake of turning some heads upside down. The truth does not know the boundaries of your imagination.  

Interesting.  What have you learned about me?

[pervert]

Interesting.  What have you learned about me?

I'll answer that one, that you read too many books 

[Citabria]

enjoyed this thread and the responses.

that guppy was able to conceed that rudel was a master combat pilot was what I was wondering about... meaning do people discount a hated enemies mastery of the battlefield because of their motives?

or can they look objectively at the actual combat actions and be interested in it in a way that excludes any thought or interest in politics and motives and ideology?


my opinion through this discussion remains this...

Rudel the combat pilot was one of the most hardcore Badarses of WWII. He sucked bad to the point that he was grounded and put in an observer position when he started. But he learned and improved and became one of if not the best flyer of WWII. (subjective topic being the best)

Rudel the man was naive. blinded by unwavering devotion to hitler and oblivious to the ramifications of what his leader and his government would do to germany. This failure was complete and Germany's destruction total and surender unconditional. Rudel mourns this loss and would give anything to have had his 1000yr reich regardless of what that would mean for the world. this was the group (Nazi germany) that made him their hero and his ego was such that this was the defining factor in why Rudel would accept, dismiss or turn a blind eye to the evil deeds being done.  I believe Rudel was never able to come to grips with the reality of his misplaced hero worshipof Hitler. To his last days he defended the actions of Nazi germany, his personal Shangri-La.

[Oldman731]

Rudel the man was naive.... I believe Rudel was never able to come to grips with the reality of his misplaced hero worshipof Hitler. To his last days he defended the actions of Nazi germany, his personal Shangri-La.

What prompts you to think that Rudel was naive, rather than someone who gladly and almost fervently adopted Naziism?

- oldman (just wondering, it isn't a rhetorical question)

[pervert]

People may hate Nazis but everyone loves Nazi gold can we all agree on that??

[Slash27]

I'll answer that one, that you read too many books 

Thinks he's all smart with his fancy book learning and what not.

[Masherbrum]

Hartmann was turned over to the Russians he done the same as rudel he then spent 10 years in a soviet pow camp, he was a hero because after the war he was no longer a Nazi

Hartmann was never a member of the NSDAP, but Rudel was.    Hartmann was an average person, fighting for their country, Rudel was a fanatic.    Oskar Schindler was a member of the NSDAP, but shielded his workers regardless of the cost involved.    But Schindler worked the NSDAP system to his Schindlerjudens' benefit and kept them alive.

Iconic quote from David M. Crowe's book, Oskar Schindler: The Untold Account of His Life, Wartime Activities, and the True Story Behind The List:   "I knew the people who worked for me. When you know people, you have to behave towards them like human beings."    I recommend the book as well, it is a very good read.

Rudel would disagree with Herr Schindler and therein lies the difference between the personalities.

[Guppy35]

I'll answer that one, that you read too many books 

Never too many.  The first books opened the door to more books, more questions and more learning.  That eventually lead to finding the people from the books and meeting them.  Which lead to more questions, more digging and more books and more people.  I've forever grateful that my parents spent time time all those years ago giving us the idea that reading was a good thing

[Masherbrum]

Never too many.  The first books opened the door to more books, more questions and more learning.  That eventually lead to finding the people from the books and meeting them.  Which lead to more questions, more digging and more books and more people.  I've forever grateful that my parents spent time time all those years ago giving us the idea that reading was a good thing

My son has picked up the reading bug from me.    

[33Vortex]

Interesting.  What have you learned about me?

I'm not in the business of judging people so it doesn't interest me. And whatever my opinion may be about you, based on what you've posted on this bbs, is bound to be wrong. So there is no point. You were just laying bait for me, mostly curious about my answer. You succeeded, even if it may not be the answer you expected.

Reading is seldom overrated, but you have to be somewhat careful what books you read. There's a lot of junk literature out there. As long as it's grounded in reality it's generally not a waste of time.

One of the best articles I've ever read was authored by Donald Hotson. Now if you're looking for a maverick scientist, he's pretty much set the standard.

 

[LCADolby]

To join the nazi party was to align yourself explicitly with the ideals of white supremecy and the war-mongering arian nation.

There was no positive side to it. It was a party started by and for Hitler, for all intents and purposes. Being part of the Nazi party means being slightly fanatical or possibly sychophantic for Hitler himself.

I cannot agree with you on your comment.

In Bold this statement I believe is incorrect. Anton Drexler was it's first leader I believe

[DrDea]

 The guy...party line or not was a shat hot pilot. The guy had stones the size of grapefruit. his affiliation was bogus but his ability wasnt. Cant we just say the guy was a SH pilot and leave it at that??

[Krusty]

In Bold this statement I believe is incorrect. Anton Drexler was it's first leader I believe

Hence my secondary clause of that same sentence, "for all intents and purposes"....