Cutting Engines Mid Flight

[titanic3]

There's an issue that irks me, and it makes me wanna know if you could really do it in RL. What hapens if you cut an engine mid flight? I know some older planes required to be cranked on the ground, is there a difference between those and more modern planes?

Some guys say your fuel lines would be cut and you would turn into a glider. Others say if your propeller is moving fast enough, it would turn right back on.

So what would happen? And is it realistic to be able to do it in AH?

[Krusty]

Yes, it is realistic. Happened many times in the war... a pilot forgot to switch tanks and the engine dies. He switches tanks, turns it back on. One P-38 pilot was the first recorded to score a kill with engines off because this happened while he was just about to fire. He calmly coasted in for the shot then started up afterwards.

Even Hitech himself flies, and has mentioned on the forums how he's had his sputter out on him before, switched tanks and started up again.

[titanic3]

So it IS possible. But should it be done? It must've put stress on the engine. And I'm pretty sure pilots weren't told to do it just to lose speed.

Is there a difference between throttling to idle and cutting in?

[Karnak]

I am aware of at least one case where a Mosquito Mk VI had its engines go off due to fuel starvation (crew forgot to switch fuel tanks) and then restarted the engines once the fuel flow was restored.

[Puma44]

No it is not realistic.  In the real world, shutting down an engine risks the real possibility that it won't restart.  In a real world combat situation there is no tactical or other reason to shut down an engine.  In game, an engine will restart.  Those that use an engine shutdown to "sneak up" on an opponent are gaming. Anything for a kill, even if it's unrealistic.

In real world multi-engine flight training student pilots will practice securing an engine in a simulated emergency situation and learn to fly on one engine. At the end of the training event, the engine is restarted, hopefully.  Yes there instances of pilots mis-managing their fuel, engine failure, and successful restart if the fuel supply isn't exhausted.  Some are not so fortunate in fuel mis-management situations. Case in point; well known aviation writer Jeff Ethel's unfortunate death flying a P-38.  

[shdo]

In a modern piston AC (only personal experience I have - multi-engine check rides wohoo!) it is very possible to shut down an engine and restart it in flight without engaging the starter.

If you have a fixed pitch prop the engine will continue spinning even with power off, creating a lot of drag, and once you turn the mags back on and let the fuel flow it will start right up.  On a prop with a governor it can depend on the the governor and if you fully feathered the prop.  If you did not feather the prop OR if your governor supports un-feathering while stopped you can restart without a starter.  If it does not support un-feathering while stopped then you will need to engage the starter to un-feather the prop and re-start the engine.

In many radials the reason you see them being hand turned while on the ground wasn't to start them but was to get the oil out of the bottom cylinders.  There can be quarts/gallons of oil in the bottom cylinders if the engines had been sitting for a time (how long I don't know).

In Korea the Saber pilots would use this trick to get back to base after fighting at the Yalu River.  Climb up to alt, cut the engine, glide back to home and restart the engine for the landing.  They were very tight on fuel.  The US Navy's P3 Orions have been known to shut down 2 engines on long patrols.  I believe I read the same thing about the British Nimrod to increase loiter time.

The B-36 could and did shut down it's 4 jet engines for cruise flight and I believe there were some cargo AC that could and did to the same.

shdo

[skorpion]

In Korea the Saber pilots would use this trick to get back to base after fighting at the Yalu River.  Climb up to alt, cut the engine, glide back to home and restart the engine for the landing.  They were very tight on fuel.  The US Navy's P3 Orions have been known to shut down 2 engines on long patrols.  I believe I read the same thing about the British Nimrod to increase loiter time.

The B-36 could and did shut down it's 4 jet engines for cruise flight and I believe there were some cargo AC that could and did to the same.

shdo

there was a story of a pilot in the vietnam war who cut his engine in his F-105 to glide back to base and land. he switched the engine on/off (for about 600 miles i believe?) so he could just get across the border of the north/south vietnam line.

[Puma44]

there was a story of a pilot in the vietnam war who cut his engine in his F-105 to glide back to base and land. he switched the engine on/off (for about 600 miles i believe?) so he could just get across the border of the north/south vietnam line.

It's doubtful that a Thud could glide engine off for 600 miles.  Anyone with actually Thud experience that can confirm?  When running out of fuel in a combat situation, the pilot has to do what he has to do for survival, something that is optional in AH.

 Real world, with effective fuel management, there's no logical reason to shut down the one good engine you have and expect it to come back when you want it to.  Doing so is just asking for an unnecessary bad day. 

[skorpion]

It's doubtful that a Thud could glide engine off for 600 miles.  Anyone with actually Thud experience that can confirm?  When running out of fuel in a combat situation, the pilot has to do what he has to do for survival, something that is optional in AH.

 Real world, with effective fuel management, there's no logical reason to shut down the one good engine you have and expect it to come back when you want it to.  Doing so is just asking for an unnecessary bad day. 

whoops the 600 miles was a typo, meant to be 60 miles

[RTHolmes]

So it IS possible. But should it be done? It must've put stress on the engine. And I'm pretty sure pilots weren't told to do it just to lose speed.

Is there a difference between throttling to idle and cutting in?

iirc the prop gets feathered when you cut the engine in AH, so it wont slow you down as much as just throttling back.

[W7LPNRICK]

whoops the 600 miles was a typo, meant to be 60 miles

The Thud had a reportedly better than 7:1 glide ratio, F-4 Phantoms(The Lead Sled) 5:1 like a rock so still the Thud had nothing to brag about gliding.
If you like the 105 & F-4 here a good read. http://acepilots.com/vietnam/olds_bolo.html 

[Krusty]

Real world, with effective fuel management, there's no logical reason to shut down the one good engine you have and expect it to come back when you want it to.  Doing so is just asking for an unnecessary bad day. 

I think you adopt a worst-case scenario. I've read many times of both combat and civilian engine restarts in midair. It's as common as starting the engine in the first place. If you have no problems (i.e. combat damage) and willingly shut it off, there's no reason it won't restart again, if it was flight worthy when you took off.

If it's at the point it won't start up, you probably never would have got airborn to begin with, no?



P.S. Skorp, I don't think the thud had a 600mi range on full gas, let alone glide!

[Karnak]

titanic3,

You seem to be fishing for something here.  Just come out and say what you want.

[Raptor05121]

cant speak for WW2-era fighters, but modern day aircraft will start no problem mid flight. the engine does not care where it is. as long as it has fuel, air, and spark- it will start.

[skorpion]

P.S. Skorp, I don't think the thud had a 600mi range on full gas, let alone glide!

P.S. i said the 600 miles was a typo.